49. [BIRTH STORY] WITH MCKENNA - CHOOSING TO FREE BIRTH HER FIRST BORN - PART 1: MOM'S VERSION - THE MYSTICAL REALMS OF BIRTH

McKenna is from the southern shores of Lake Michigan and has spent the last year in Maine with her husband. 

She is a witness and participant in life’s miraculous offerings. She has a reverence for energetic practices like yoga and qi gong. She is still in the process of bringing her own offerings into the physical realm. For now, she is enjoying the early days of motherhood with her first child who’s birth story is told in this episode. 

If you would like to connect with her: mckennalouisesee@yahoo.com 

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Music The Ancients (feat. Loga Ramin Torkian) by Azam Ali

Disclaimer:

The information and resources provided by me are not intended to constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice or a Mother’s intuition. Instead, all information provided is intended for education purposes only. My advice is not to be seen as medical diagnosis or to treat any medical illness or condition of Mother or baby/fetus.

The following transcript is AI generated so there will be errors

Emily: Foreign welcome to Soul Evolution.

My name is Emily, also known as the Birth Advocate. I am a retired nurse, health coach, women's circle and ceremony facilitator, and the host of this podcast. Here we dive deep to reclaim our rites of passage with a big dose of birth story medicine, intentionally curious conversations with embodied wisdom keepers, and a sprinkle of polarity as we will hold space for our men from time to time too.

I hope you find nourishment for your soul here, as you probably heard my course so youo Want a Home Birth? Your complete guide to an Empowering, Physiological birth is now available.

You can listen to episode 41 to hear all about it, or you can go to my website www.birthadvocate me course to learn more. I have poured my heart and soul into this complete guide to an Empowering physiological Home Birth course.

You will walk away feeling ready body, mind and soul, knowing that everything you need to birth your baby already exists with within you. Your questions will be answered, guaranteed. Your fears will be quelled.

I walk you through, step by step exactly how to prepare yourself, your partner and your home for the most incredible experience you get to have in this lifetime. Birth is a sacred rite of passage worthy of honoring.

Do not leave it up to chance.

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Welcome McKenna to the PodC Cast. This is exciting for me. It's. It's one of those mom and dad versions which I'm just so honored and grateful that I get to provide to people because it's there's medicine in both versions of the story.

And you know, I I recorded your your husband's a couple days ago so I'm hearing your second and you were sharing with me right before I hit record that Today's a special day for you and it just for everyone listening.

We're recording this on December 13th, which is a Friday the 13th, and it's a special day anyway, you know, day of the goddess. But you said it was special for you as well.

Mckenna: Yeah, thank you so much for providing this space. It is very special and sacred to me. And yeah, the.

The inception of all of this coming together, even, I guess, like, I didn't know that today was a particularly special day for me. I also don't know anything about the sort of, like, symbolism of it being represented in a goddess, and I don't know if you want to, like, share anything about that quickly.

Emily: Well, the number 13 is the number of moons in a year, the number of times that we bleed.

Friday is Venus day. So the goddess of love, romanticism, Freya.

So, yeah, this is. And of course, you know, all of these things that have been given a bad rap, like Friday the 13th, it's actually because it's a very powerful day.

Mckenna: Neat. Thank you. Yeah, so.

Emily: So why don't you just give, like, a little brief intro, like, who are you? And.

And then we can kind of dive into what it was like to become pregnant.

Mckenna: Yeah, I am.

I feel sort of young in this world of, like, entering motherhood. I think that. So that's like, a aspect of myself. I'm 27. I have been, like, very solo throughout this life.

I'm an only child. I was really close with my mom, who was a single mom, and, yeah, just kind of had these, like, one at a time, very meaningful relationships as I moved through life.

And. Yeah, so I've always kind of been, like, sort of sturdier in what I believe and, like, what I think to be true, what I think to be right, those sorts of things.

And I think that all of that has had a very big impact on how I chose to enter motherhood.

I wasn't someone who I've always kind of like, resonated more on, like, this masculine end of the spectrum or even, like, middle line. I don't know. But, like, natural, like, womanly things has just been more absent, despite having, like, you know, just a mom figure for the most part.

And, yeah, I never really, like, I. I never felt, like, drawn to little kids in, like, a motherly way. It was more like for fun, like the little cousins that I had around growing up.

And I never wanted kids until I met Patrick, my husband. And.

Yeah, and it was more so like this idea of, like, family that I wanted, once I did meet him, of, like, oh, like, that's really, really important to me. I'm realizing now all at once, like, I've never given any thought to this before, and now it's, like, kind of like, reclaiming that and making new, I guess, for context.

Another big part of the sort of journey to arriving at motherhood is that, like, there was a lot of negativity, toxicity. I wish I could come up with more meaningful to me words with my relationship with my mom.

I think that to have just your mom be, like, that really important figure and no one else kind of naturally has some consequences that her and I have not been able to, like, look at together.

And finding Patrick has been, like, a massive wedge that has completely separated our relationship.

And so I've entered motherhood without her and kind of having that, like, choice of, like, I really.

My mom wants me to choose, you know, between her and my partner.

Emily: Mm.

Mckenna: So, yeah, I spent. I knew pretty quickly after meeting Patrick, like, within a year, like family. Like, I really want to do that with you.

And we spent the next, like, three years or so on this sort of track of, like, yeah, we're ready for these babies that we feel around us energetically, but we're not actually ready in the physical realm.

We need to take a couple more steps. Getting to Maine was a big part in that. Once we landed here, it was a very secure space to go forward.

So those three years before, it was just a lot of darkness, a lot of that dark night of the soul energy being stripped back.

How deep can we go?

Which, in retrospect, now on the other side, like, there's still layers of that that are present in things, but, like, the intensity of it has been kind of, like, removed, and it was such a preparation for this season.

Now just feels so much more, like, centered and calm and, like, I'm aware of many more aspects of myself.

And. Yeah, so despite spending, like, years kind of wanting children and ready for this next chapter, I put no thought. And I'm. I'm someone who thinks a lot about things just in circles and from different angles.

And I had never thought about pregnancy or, like, what that would be like, or, like, how do I want to give birth and what are my fears around becoming a mom or just, like, specifically that sort of, like, immersion that has been, like, so, like, it just gets it.

I feel like, in our, you know, sort of societal lens where birth is horrific, you know, it's scary. It is, like, gruesome.

Every, like, depiction in movies and things, and I just never really, like, given any thought to It. And so all of a sudden, I am pregnant. And I had also, I guess, like, so we.

These three years are happening, like, in this decade of 2020, which I have heard through, like, listening to other episodes on this podcast and through Pat Patrick, that, like, it seems like you and I were kind of both in this wave of, like, wait a minute.

Like, what is this?

Emily: Hold on. Well, this is not making sense.

Mckenna: Yeah.

Yeah. And just, like, reality shifting, like, very quickly.

I was in school to become, like, a therapist was, like, my end goal. And I still continued in that path for a while, but then just realized that I was going to be, like, facing this fight, like, every single day, and it's not how I wanted to show up.

So when I became pregnant, the regular standard thing to do is to go to your appointments, go find your doctor, which I hadn't been in a while.

And I had always imagined a home birth, like, but literally nothing past that. And may I ask how you were born? I was born in a hospital. What I remember about my story, which could not be, like, it might not be accurate, but it is kind of like what's been left over of, like, hearing that story when I was younger is that my mom labored a lot at home.

She was 19.

My mom, her mom, my great grandma, they're all 20 years apart, essentially. My mom's birthday is, like, two months after mine. Yeah.

Emily: Oh, wow.

Mckenna: And so she labored at home with her mom and, like, younger sisters. She's the oldest of four girls, and.

And then she got to the hospital, and they were kind of like, wow, like, you're, you know, like, many centimeters dilated. You're gonna be ready to push soon, you know, that sort of standard thing.

And so she's always told this story in, like, a very. Like, I was proud, you know, Like, I did so much of it myself. And, like. And motherhood was, I think, really, really empowering for her of just, like, learning how much she could accomplish and do.

And. Yeah, I don't know anything about her birth or, like, my grandma's birth, but.

Emily: That was a. I guess. I mean, just maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but it sounds like that was a positive frame, even despite all of the indoctrination and brainwashing that we see within the media.

Mckenna: Absolutely. Yeah. And despite, like, all of the, like, sludge, you know, between. In, like, within our relationship there for the. For the first, you know, 19 or 20 years, like, it was a lot of, like, none of that sludge was recognized.

And there was so much, like, Strength and like sort of this like, I mean now I think we're. Yeah, just like, you can do it, you know, Like I definitely was brought up in a world of like, you can do it.

Like you don't. There's like this negative side of like, you don't need anyone. And it's like, well, but I want to like know how to work with other people and have healthy relationships.

But like that like there is a core of that that is like you got this, you know, and you envisioned a home birth.

Yeah, yeah, always. And there was a conversation like so, you know, meeting all of my younger cousins and things in hospitals. I met lots of them in hospitals. I always felt like that was wrong, but I.

Not like wrong, but just like it didn't feel right, you know. And so I had voiced like throughout growing up, like in high school, those sort of years of like, yeah, home birth, like a home birth.

And just sort of got like fear mongering stories of like, I know somebody and I just couldn't put my baby at risk like that, you know.

So yeah, I definitely knew that. I definitely knew like midwife, but I just didn't like, like I. You know what I mean? Of like you kind of, when your reality is like cracked open, you start thinking like how that applies to everything.

And I never thought about like how that applied to this like journey of giving birth. But then I became pregnant and it was like we have, we do have to figure something out.

And so I knew like I. A midwife, of course I did not know that because I ended up choosing like what we're calling a free birth, you know, or unassisted birth.

I kind of struggle with like the name of it a little bit.

Emily: Like it's so weird, like the dogma around the language. I just, I don't really resonate. But whatever you want to call it is.

Mckenna: Yeah.

Emily: Will be called.

Mckenna: Yeah, free birth definitely like resonates with me. So does unassisted. I have like a. Yeah. Kind of like, well, what does that mean to whoever's like listening? You know? And I feel that a lot like even when I am introducing the term to somebody, like, have you heard about this on the Internet yet?

Do you. Yeah. So just kind of like there's like an extra noise around it that doesn't actually have to do with the choice. I feel it's very about like being perceived for me.

Yeah.

So I didn't start looking for a midwife even until I was like, I think like close to like through my sort of like period of like morning sickness and things.

And around the time that we had found like, we started sort of like interviewing people having conversations, although I didn't know like how to ask questions of like, so is this normal?

Is this normal? Is this normal? Like, and the answer should be yes. You know, I think we were just kind of like, so you like informed consent? Like, awesome. So do we.

And well, I mean you bring up.

Emily: Such a good point there. And it's something that I'm really, really passionate about is interviewing our providers and interviewing them like intensely right from the start. So that means you kind of have to come in with an understanding of what physiological birth is and how it can be messed with and your level of sensitivity and just multiply that by like 10x.

Because when you're in labor then you're that much more sensitive. Yeah. So I do have a free resource, questions to ask your midwife when seeking a physiological birth. Your rights and what is legal.

It's like a 13 page document because I usually go big when I do things, but I highly encourage everybody to check that out.

Mckenna: Yeah, that's awesome. I'm like now in this space of navigating friends, being pregnant and having this like urge to like, I want to protect you, I don't want you to endure like what I think like is very likely to happen.

But then realizing that that is like the ex. The exact same like fear mongering that like I was given from certain people for.

Emily: Isn't it interesting to see it from those perspectives? Dr. Melanie Jackson, the great birth rebellion host, she did a PhD on birthing outside the system and basically came to the conclusion that women that choose to free bir, that choose to schedule their cesareans are doing it for the exact same reason because they feel that's the safest and best option for them.

And like, you know, because it can. Absolutely. The same thing can be applied, however, which way you want to twist it. And it's like we're all on this journey of our own coming, right?

Like it's a sacred rite of passage. Whatever happens, whether conscious or subconscious, is the rite of passage.

And yeah, I mean some of us are more conscious about our decisions and others aren't. And who are we really to like push our agenda on others?

I'm really of the mindset of just like set the example, put out a beacon of resonance. If people resonate, they come. If they don't, I still send them lots of love, you know?

Mckenna: Yeah, but I hear you totally. And yeah, I do think that like a, wherever you Feel safest is so important on just, like, arriving at the place on your journey that, like, you need should be, will be, whatever.

And that, like, what is, you know, a nightmare to me, like, is not going to be the same for everyone, you know, and also operating from this place of, like, fear of, like, you.

You know, I didn't.

I could interpret, like, all of my decisions as like, the hospital was just, like, scary, terrible. Like, I could not go there. But ultimately it was like, like, at home is where I think is right, you know, like, that's what feels right.

And then as my story sort of unfolded and, like, like, life unfolded, it was like, oh, and being alone is actually what also feels right to me now.

And do you recall, like, because you.

Emily: Because Patrick told the story. I already know you, so you guys hired a midwife and then, like, the whole Doppler and ultrasound, I guess you went down the rabbit hole of ultrasounds and Dopplers.

Mckenna: Yeah, that do I recall. Like, what's the specific question?

Emily: Oh, yeah, the question. So, like, what was your sort of, like, pivotal moment when you were like, hey, actually, this doesn't align. This isn't what I.

Mckenna: This actually.

Emily: Yeah, like, kind of, like, two parts.

Mckenna: So I. After we made arrangements with a midwife, I learned through someone on YouTube, that's, like, a very big platform for me. I don't really engage with any social media, but YouTube is my spot.

And somebody who.

She was just. She was also pregnant, and she was just sharing, like, what her birth plan was, which is such a brave thing to do to, like, a blind audience.

I think before that. That. Before that plan has happened. And she was like, yeah, so we might have a doula, but otherwise, like, it's just gonna be me and my partner.

And I was, like, shocked. I was like, women are doing this. Like, duh. Like, that's what I want to do. Like, that's amazing. Like, I just had no idea that that, like, was something that we as, like, humans were still doing, which is, like, crazy.

And I told Patrick immediately. I was like, I'm going to want to do this at some point in time. Like, definitely one of our babies. Like, without a doubt at some point in time.

And then we went through, like, the first few meetings with our midwife, and it just felt weird. I was like, this feels like I'm at the doctor. I'm just in my house.

Like, let me check your blood pressure. Let's have you step on a scale.

I hadn't been stepping on scales. I didn't know my starting weight and just kind of all this, like, ranking of, like, well, you should be here. We gotta check this to make sure of this.

And I was like, this has felt completely different for the first, like, probably like 18 to 20 weeks. 20 weeks is, I think, around the time that we started meeting.

And so, yeah, so then Patrick had kind of heard about ultrasounds and, like, the funny business going on over there that we don't know as much as we know. And the real, like.

Like, part that I couldn't, like, get past when it came to that is that there was a law rule, I don't know what the FDA makes exactly, that, like, you.

They increased the ultrasound frequency that they're sending into your womb by, like, a dramatic number, like, more than double.

And at the same time, they made it illegal or unethical to study the effects of ultrasound in the United States. And I was like, that's a massive red flag that I cannot get past.

And, like, you won't be putting whatever that is on my body.

And I do think that, like, if there's, like, I don't know, the tool itself, like, if there's something going on within your body that you need to, like, look inside, like, that is one thing on its own.

And it's a completely different subject than looking at this being that is, like, resting and preparing inside your body. That is just, like, perfect and, like, untouched and unharmed. Like, let them be.

And that definitely that. So that was a. That's something that comes into play later, once she arrives is like, when she's in my body, like, I had this, like, unbreakable sense of, like, it's all good.

And if I was, like, concerned, like, I could just go inward and ask. And, like, sometimes I didn't even have to ask. I was just, like. It was just overflowing of, like, yep, everything's great.

Emily: I have to ask. Have you always been so in tune with your self, trust and intuition, or was this something that you, like, consciously worked on?

Mckenna: It's shown up in different ways. Like, there are definitely certain environments where it's, like, less strong than in other environments.

Emily: Did you notice that when you got pregnant, it, like, exploded tenfold?

Mckenna: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I. Yeah, I don't think I've ever processed that. But, like, yeah, looking back, I had something that feels, like, relevant is like, when I was in middle school, my.

We were just having, like, my. It started with my mom, where she was having, like, a lot of cavities, broken bones, and then one morning she, like, woke up and was, like, screaming in pain.

And she was saying, like, this is worse than labor. And I couldn't, like, drive or anything. So I, like, call my grandma, and they go to the hospital, and they're like, are you sure you're not pregnant?

You know, like, just, like, pushing that. And they couldn't find anything wrong with her. And so she decided to just, like, cut out gluten. And everything went away, like, 24 hours.

And then maybe a year or two later, I started having, like, similar, just kind of, like, undefined pain in my body.

And so we did the same thing. It was, like, in a place where it was, like, could it be the appendix? So we went to the hospital again, the emergency room, and they ran all their tests, stuck me in their machine, and, like, everything's good.

No appendix, no nothing. And so I also cut out gluten. And that was something that, like, so I. And I continued not eating gluten until I was, like, 18 or 19.

I started, like, slowly reintroducing it and not having any issues. But for all of that time in the middle, if I accidentally ate a flour tortilla or Frosted Flakes, which are corn flakes, but they have gluten, like, I would have these terrible stomach aches that I could only, like, sleep off.

There was nothing that could really, like, intercept the pain.

And I argued with people about that a lot. Like, as I was growing up, like, it's my body. Like, I can feel it. Like, this is. And, you know, this is a fad diet.

And I do think there's something, like, weirdly energetic about the whole, like, your gut and then gluten is introduced, and now you have these pains. But it shows up differently for so many different people.

I do think there's something energetic there, but I just spent a lot of time fighting about that, so I kind of feel like that was influential of this, because I struggle all the time about, like, what somebody else thinks and, like, what, you know, it just, like, it doesn't matter.

Like, I'm in my own body.

But, yeah, so it's not perfect. The whole, like, sense of being intuitive, and it has been heightened throughout. Growing another human and caring for that human. Yeah.

So, yeah, we started talking with her about, like, could you just use a fetoscope?

Like, do we have to use the Doppler? We don't want to do the one ultrasound.

And she said no. And so. And we kind of had already, like, proposed it. Like, if it's a no, if it's not like a yes, like, it's okay. Like, we don't have to continue on.

And at that point in time, we still weren't like, we got this. We can do it ourselves. We're like, maybe we should, like, we gotta continue our search, like.

And, yeah, then there was another friend who was actually, like, in the podcast world that, like, we know of. She's on the other side of the country. We've never met her, and she was sort of, like, introducing us to, like, free birth society podcast.

And all of a sudden, we're listening to multiple stories a day of, like, yeah, women are doing this all the time. Like, there's a reason that we feel that one is so wrong.

And this, like, because I feel like we didn't really, like, give ourselves permission to feel like this was so right, that this was something that we could do in a few months and not a few years.

And so just having that sort of, like, reassurance come from, you know, other.

Emily: People having storytelling is so powerful.

Mckenna: Yeah.

So, yeah, that's how we ended on this page of deciding to.

Yeah, I'm struggling with language, a little bit of, like, do it ourselves. And it's like, it did require work on, like, both people's end, you know, but, like, mama's the only one delivering the baby.

I feel so passionately about that.

Emily: I have to correct pretty much anybody that says they delivered the baby. I'm like, no, you delivered the baby. But they maybe were there and caught the baby. Yeah.

Mckenna: Yeah. And catching the baby is such, like, I had no idea until I was, like, in that moment of, like, I don't know, it's not necessary, but it. It's just like, you don't.

I don't know. I always.

Catching the baby is a huge role. That was actually something else that Patrick brought up during one of the meetings with the midwife. Like, hey, can I catch the baby?

Like, I understand. Like, if it doesn't, like, I would like to, you know? And so here we are many months talking about, like, it's important to me. I would like to.

And there wasn't a note of, like, hopefully, you know, we'll do our best. It was like, oh, like, you're gonna be comforting her. Like, I'm gonna be down there doing that.

Yeah.

I felt really connected also to, like, my daughter, like, as she was entering this world of kind of, like, being guided by her, of, like, this is.

Emily: What we gotta do.

Mckenna: And just, like, listening to that. So, yeah, that's how we end up at not having a midwife.

Emily: If you would just tell us, then how you prepared to birth this baby without a midwife. What was that process like for you?

You know, the tangibly. Did you guys, like, take a course or study or read up, or did you just really fall back into self trust and intuition? Like, what was your process?

Mckenna: We did get a lot of books.

Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering was a really great one.

I loved reading stories. Spiritual midwifery was, like, my favorite place to read stories. Free birth society was my favorite place to listen to stories.

But I listen to all sorts of stories. Like, YouTube will really feed you a lot of, you know, positive hospital birth. Positive, like, negative hospital birth. Like, so I was just kind of like, anyone that I kind of had some sense of, like, who they were through, like, their other content on the Internet.

I was curious, like, what birth was like for them.

And so stories was huge. Yeah, I also.

Yeah, like, we. I. I was taking ritual prenatals for a while.

I was just kind of, like, getting, like, sales on them. And they do have, like, pretty good ingredients. I like that they were coming from, like, a natural source. And I had this, like, sort of synchronistic moment of, like, finding a couple, like, bad, like, black capsules at the same time of, like, hearing about, like, oysters.

And I knew about beef liver, but oysters was really shocking to me. And so I just kind of like, switched from doing that to, like, real, like, I started eating eggs.

Like, those are sort of like my vitamins. And that's still something for me of, like, there's some. Yeah, I like, know what I'm eating when I'm eating the eggs, which makes them taste better and things to me.

And. Yeah, cod liver oil, beef liver. I think those were all the things I had, like, my own sort of.

I really like practicing yoga, and for, like, the year and a half prior to becoming pregnant, it was a very, like, physical practice. And I would try to spend time in a more like, meditative, like, inner quiet realm and just hitting a lot of walls.

And then as I became pregnant, it like, completely switched from being, like, so barely physical to very still and quiet. And I totally had my eyes, like, set on a blissful birth.

Like a expansive, cushy, warm, comfortable birth. And that's why I really loved reading Spiritual Midwifery. Those stories are all just like, whew, the places I went, you know, and, like, how good it felt.

And I became fascinated at this element of, like, birth being an altered state of consciousness. That was really interesting to me. And I think that gentle birth, gentle mothering talks a lot about, like, physiology or Bio.

Yeah. Chemistry. Thank you.

Emily: I call it the divine chemistry.

Mckenna: There's a design.

And, yeah, learning about that felt really comforting in what I was choosing to do. And, like.

Yeah, we also chose to be, like, really protective of, like, who we shared the plan with.

Emily: Yeah.

Mckenna: And, yeah, so, like, none of. Because all of my family is in Indiana. Like, nobody knew over there until after our baby arrived.

And, yeah, there wasn't. I didn't really, like. I didn't really ever get into, like, hypnobirthing. And I wasn't, like, I wasn't really imagining birth when I was in those still places.

I just say that because when, like, that process of, like, labor arrived, I feel like the stillness, the calmness, like, was sort of just, like, thrown out the window. I was like, you know, it was a place I had never been before.

And so there was no, like, going back to, you know, the stillness I had felt on my mat, holding my belly.

It was like traveling into the beyond and coming back with my baby. I really liked that way of conceptualizing what, like, labor and birth was.

Emily: So I always recommend that.

So, like, mental focus, breath, and relaxation.

To me, those are the top three ways to prepare for this. And, you know, if anyone's had experience with psychedelic medicines, then, you know, you're going to have a little edge on preparing, too, for what the journey can be like to the stars to get our baby.

But that mental focus, the ability to stay relaxed and calm in the intensity and breath, I think that those are practices that can't be overstated.

But like you said, you. You do. You can. It can be some people's experience to be just completely transported and, like, everything goes out the window. But I would still say that those practices help prepare you to be maybe not taken quite as far.

Mckenna: Agree. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Emily: So do you want to dive into early labor and what that was like?

Mckenna: Yeah, I had.

So I anticipated the solstice being her birthday, and I kind of felt like, who am I to have such, like, a big day? You know, like, surely I must be misreading something, because then the week of the solstice arrived, and there was, like, no signs of, I'm gonna have a baby soon.

And then the day of the solstice arrived, and I had felt, like, no inkling of, like, here she comes.

And I spent the day sort of, like, at my desk or the morning sort of, like, calculate. Like, I had figured out, like, within the last month that I just wasn't doing my math right on due date, which is funny.

And, you know, like, looking back, because it's like, yeah, who knows? You know? And there was a little equation that we do, and I wasn't doing it right. And, like, it just.

Yeah. And I, like, I couldn't figure it out from that point on, you know, of, like, okay, well, so what should it be? According to this, it was very messy and fine.

But so I was, like, basically doing calculations of, like, okay, so if I'm pregnant for 44 weeks, like, does that mean that I'm pregnant in a month still? Or, like.

Like, just, like, doing all of this? Like, how long? You know, I had people, like, planning on, like, coming into town. I'm like, are they gonna actually be here for the birth?

Like, is that what's meant to be? Like, okay?

And Fiona Apple is someone that I just, like, so love and resonate with. And I, after doing these calculations, was watching something about her that I'd kind of, like, seen over and over and over and over, but never watched.

You know, like, I had seen it pass by, and I never just clicked on it to, like, watch and listen to it. And there's this song. It's like a lullaby that I didn't really know about, and it just feels like such a gift.

And I. I wrote all about, you know, this day in, like, my immediate postpartum period. And I, like, wrote in it that it felt like that was when, like, my guide, my actual, like, birth keepers, were arriving.

It is such a beautiful song.

Emily: Do you remember the name of the song?

Mckenna: Oh, what's the name of the song?

I don't remember the name, but it, like, the lyrics are like, I can't wait to meet you for the first time. I don't know what I'll do that day. I'll cry and I'll laugh and I'll kiss you.

Emily: Oh, yeah.

Mckenna: Perfect. I hopped. Yeah.

And so, yeah, I listened to that song over and over and over and was just crying.

And, yeah, our dog buddy was just like, you know, like, you're crying. I gotta be right there with you. And it was. Yeah. I took a bath after that, and my water broke in the bath.

And, yeah, I was like, I. So a theme throughout this birth is that I'm just, like, so doubtful and unsure that I'm, like, actually in labor and, like, wanting to almost, like, protect myself in that way.

And.

Yeah. So I was like, is it because. Yeah, it was. It was like, I didn't. Because I was in the bath. I don't even know how it's possible for water to break, but it felt Like I had sort of like.

Like it felt like it broke in the bath. Okay. And it felt sort of like I had peed, but, like uncontrollably and. But then it was kind of like a pinkish color when I got out of the bath.

And so I was like, is this bloody show? Is this my water breaking?

And I didn't really know much beyond that of like, should I be worried that there's like blood or something like in the amniotic fluid and.

Yeah. So I just kind of like had this like, uncertainty that now I think like, it was my water. I'm not sure if I should have been worried that I.

I know I shouldn't have been worried that it was pink, but, like, would somebody else have been worried? You know?

And that is at like 3pm on a Friday. And then we just have like a totally normal night, you know, I mean, it's not normal, but like, everything feels like.

But we did the normal routine of like dinner, we watched a movie, we watched Kiki's delivery service for the first time.

Emily: Just.

Mckenna: Did you.

Emily: Were you having like cramps or backache or sensations?

Mckenna: Totally, yeah. I didn't start having sensations until maybe around like dinner time. So like a few hours hours later at like 6 or 7.

And it felt like a.

If it didn't feel like what I expected it to feel like, but it felt like a coconut. Like a coconut sized, you know, head was just like pressing into like my like pelvic floor.

Not quite like at the floor yet, but just like pressing. And so I was like describing this, you know, feeling to Patrick and it's like, can do. Can we call it a contraction?

Like, is that what it is?

And it's like, I suppose, like, that's what it is, but I'm just like every like step of labor felt very like, I don't know, like doubtful, you know, like.

And yeah, I would like, tell him when they were happening. Like, like, because it wasn't taking anything out of me at that point. It was just something that was sort of happening in my body and it was making me excited.

And so we went to sleep that night and I was just like every dream I had was like some different birth scenario that I felt like I was witnessing. It wasn't even like sort of like a what if this happens?

What if this happens? It was just like, oh, and this is one way that that had happened, you know?

And around like 1:30, I think I woke. I had been up for maybe somewhere between 1 and 2. I wake up and Then I realized that I've been up for, like, an hour and I'm having these sensations.

And so I, like. I went up to the couch and had another dream there where it had, like, snowed, which is crazy because we're, like, in the hot part of the year, you know?

And, yeah, I ate, like. I ate some food while I was out on the couch, basically. I got, like, a solid chunk of sleep. And then around, like, 2:00, I had some broken sleep.

I still got, like, another nap before the morning came.

And around so, like, you know, 7:00, Patrick gets up, and I'm still just, like, talking. I don't know if it's gonna happen. We could be here for days. Like, we'll see.

And we take Buddy out for a walk.

And that is when things like, where my contractions require, like, focus and attention.

And so, like, walking seemed to really just, like, progress everything along as it should be. And so we get back into the house, and Buddy's a puppy at this point in time, like, total puppy.

He's still pretty puppy, but he was a total puppy in June.

He, like, has, like, a little, like, burst of energy as I'm having a wave, a contraction. And I was like, okay, we need to sort of, like, separate, and I need to focus on this.

And so Buddy and Patrick went outside for a while, and I ended up in the bath. I don't know how long it really, like, took me to arrive there. I really enjoyed listening to Beautiful Chorus, specifically, like, a Breathe It In, Let It Go song just, like, on repeat.

And I started, like, hearing, like, things like. Like, as I. I sat with that song, like, the song sort of, like, started expanding and, like, there were more tones and notes, which was a beautiful thing to experience.

And eventually I call Patrick with my phone, like, okay, like, I'm ready for you to be here.

And so he's just. He comes in and he's just sitting in the bathroom with me. And I remember telling him, like, I really just want to talk to you. Like, I feel like I'm not supposed to.

Like, I'm supposed to be focusing on this, going inward. And he just reminds me, like, you can do whatever you want. You know, there's no, like, there's no rules.

And I don't remember what we talked about. And I just. So there's another, you know, point of doubt. And so then I, like. I go into our bed and I just, like, get comfy.

Like, there's way more pillows and blankets on the bed than there normally are. And I'm just, like, totally cozied up. And I remember thinking, like, this isn't going to progress, my birth.

Like, I need to be moving, I need to be swaying. I need to be on my ball or something. And, like, me just being curled up in this bed is not the right thing to do.

So I. We took at least one loop around the house. We kind of had, like, you know, all my yoga props set up in one room, and everything was darkened.

And so I, like, tried doing, you know, the things I thought I should be doing. And just. It felt like it was so much harder and, like, painful and, like, I couldn't find a way for the, like, sensations to escape because that's really what, like, making noise and like, toning was for me was just like, energy is flowing.

And I'd never had an experience like that before. And I'm a pretty quiet person.

So it was, you know, totally unexpected and new.

And. Yeah, I just ended up, like, staying in bed. Like, this is where it feels good. And so I don't. I gotta, like, move away from the. Where I should be and what I should be doing.

This is what feels good.

And.

Yeah. Yeah, thank you.

Emily: I did the same thing.

Mckenna: Yeah, it's like, fast. You spend, like, all these months kind of being like, this is what, you know, feels good to me. This is. And then you're, like, faced with this, like, oh, no, like, I should actually be doing this, and it's still not true.

And.

Yeah, so I stayed there and I.

I had some thoughts arise that were like, as someone who thinks a lot, I feel very attached to many of my thoughts and scenarios that play out and ideas and stuff.

But I recorded three thoughts that are like, maybe birth is traumatic. Or, like, I could see how birth is traumatic.

I understand why women go to the hospital. More specifically, like, why women, like, wouldn't want to feel this, like, why you would go to the hospital. And like, there's no way I'm gonna be able to do this anytime soon.

Which was like, all of those things were very not aligned with myself. But they're like thoughts that I'm being confronted with. And looking back on those things, I feel like they were just such, like, clear, like, you know, go past this.

Go past this belief, this limiting belief, and, like, see what is on the other side. But they were also surprising because I had spent all of these months, like, not thinking that, not believing that I.

Emily: Have thoughts around this. Do you think, first off, do you think that's when you were in transition?

Mckenna: I was getting Close. I have like a. There are transition thoughts also.

Emily: Yeah.

Mckenna: That I can talk about.

Emily: Did you verbalize these fears or did you just sit with them and like go around and around in your mind with them?

Mckenna: I did not verbalize them. They surprised me.

And because I was simultaneously having like a totally psychedelic experience of just like watching all of these things that I can't remember now looking back, I just watched like a studio Ghibli film.

And so it was like, of that sort of like theme. Which is cool. Yeah. It just sort of felt like out of place.

And I think that this was probably because I was looking at the clock up until like 1. I know that at like 9 is when I sent Patrick and our dog out.

And that's when I like started to really like go inward and I was checking the time until one and I think that it would. So, like, I don't know if transition took possibly a really long time because she arrived at 5:30.

Like, I don't. I don't know. I feel like it's like it's different for everyone. And. Yes.

Emily: And transition can last minutes to hours. Actually. I personally had like a two hour transition period.

But like when I teach people, I teach people about transition, but I also teach just about the general crisis of confidence, like those thoughts that you felt and like expect it, you know, like really expect it and.

And like have a plan because it's, it's gonna happen. Because legitimately this is a rite of passage. And then these rites of passage, we get pushed to our edge and then off the edge.

And that's how we transform and emerge a new being.

So like, you're going to go beyond what you think is possible and also like compassion and empathy for the women who choose, you know, to birth in a hospital and who choose to have pain relief.

You know, like, we. We get it.

Mckenna: Yeah. Yeah. That is.

In the moment, it did feel much more like what you're speaking to, of like, oh, like I've witnessed the other side and like, it's all okay. Looking back, it feels very like those weren't like, that wasn't like true to me.

And I had to like, go beyond it to find what was true to me. Like to find like what I needed. And like all of that is true in the end.

And. But those things kind of like the, the pain and like recovery of birth kind of took me by a surprise. And that was. So those did feel. Those thoughts were very like present in like the immediate.

I definitely got pushed to an edge and sort of. Yeah. That crisis of confidence, like, yeah, had to sort of recalibrate.

Emily: And I also just want to speak validation to this. Like, birth is traumatic. I've said it many times. Like, even the most physiological birthday can be a traumatic experience. It's like a freaking freight train.

Can be, like, running through your body and you're out of control. Like, it's. It can be very traumatic even. Even if there's no quote, unquote, sabotage, you know, so just totally there too.

Mckenna: Yeah. I have, like, kind of. I don't know what the word is. I have resistance around that idea that. Because there is. There is an idea that, like, birth inherently is traumatic and, like.

Yeah, I don't know. I just feel sort of, like, threatened and like, offended by, like, this idea that I recognize, you know, that's like, you know, that's where your work is.

And.

Emily: Well, it's a. Both and. Right. Like, it's.

Mckenna: Yeah, yeah.

Emily: It's beautiful. It's natural. It can absolutely be blissful and orgasmic and it can be, like, terrifying and, you know, it can be a both and.

Mckenna: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been an interesting space to navigate just because there is. I had very few, like, actual people, physical people in my corner doing this. And so it just, like, there's so much conflict and, like, sort of, like, protection and what I believe what isn't true.

And so, yeah, that's just like, a sore spot of that and really appreciate, like, your language around the ideas.

So.

Emily: So you're in the throes of it.

Mckenna: I'm in the throes, yeah.

Emily: You invited Patrick back?

Mckenna: Yeah. Yeah.

It is just like, gradually getting louder and more intense until, like, 1pm and then I stop looking at the clock. I don't want to know. I remember also telling Patrick, like, I couldn't imagine this going any faster.

And I start kind of going back and forth between, like, the toilet and our bed. And the toilet felt, like, way harder, you know, like everything was harder. And in bed it was just so much better.

And I started feeling like, surely, I think this is when we're getting into transition. We've gone through those thoughts. Patrick has just been there quietly the entire time, just, like, receiving anything.

I'm, like, giving to him.

He tells me that he was like that. You know, I was kind of repeatedly like, I don't know. I don't know. And he was like, I, like, it just seemed like it was riding this perfect wave, you know, going exactly where it needed to.

And, yeah, I start feeling like, surely this has to, like, be happening soon. And I have no idea, like, what time this is.

And I start feeling like, the.

The not, like, the urge to push. Like, sort of like I start feel, you know, I. Fetal ejection response or reflex.

Didn't feel the way I expected it to, but just that sort of. It felt so gritty. Like, once we're getting into this, like, more transition point, like, so gritty. Totally being blasted open.

I felt blasted open for, like, at least a week. But it's just like that, like, initial, like, crack.

Yeah. Was very intense. There's. It. There's part of, like, that sort of like, you forget how it feels.

Emily: Isn't it crazy?

Mckenna: Yeah, yeah.

But just like, the biggest feeling ever. And almost like. Yeah, it felt like a person was emerging out of my body.

And, yeah, I. I, at this point, like, started, like, reaching out. I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this. And that's. I think this is my. My transition thoughts.

And I'm, like, reaching up, sort of like whoever's there, like, God, like, help me. And I'm just immediately. And so clearly directed, like, down, like, inward, you know, like. Like, you got this.

Emily: Goosebumps.

Mckenna: And so I'm like, okay, you know, and I'm sitting on the toilet when this happens, and at some point I hear like, the baby's not ready. And those are like, the.

You know, when things come in differently. Like, your thoughts sound one way and other things sound other ways. They come from different directions.

And, yeah, the baby's not ready. And so I went back to my cuddly spot in bed and. Which was kind of giving me this cushy birth experience in some way.

And I was definitely the most comfortable there and continued doing my thing there. And then I heard crystal clear, like, okay, the baby's ready.

And, yeah, I felt very. Like, I figured in the moment I would just know how I'm supposed to birth this baby. But I hadn't put thought into, like, yeah, I'm thinking all fours is what I'm going to like to do, because how are you supposed to know?

But, yeah, I was very, like, drawn into the toilet, but that was just not going to work with, like, matter and where things are.

There's nothing wrong with a baby in a toilet. But, like, I couldn't. Like, there's not a lot of space. And so. And there's a big belly, too, that I'm not used to navigating.

And so, yeah, I went back to the bathroom and ended up, you know, on all fours and just like, all I could do was, like, like, push and, like, focus on getting a baby out.

I could. It was really, like.

Like, I need. I felt like I really needed Patrick there to, like, help and. Because I wanted her to be caught and.

Emily: So where did you end up?

Mckenna: So I ended up in front of the toilet on all fours. Our bedroom and our bathroom are very close. It's like, you know, right next to each other.

And, yeah, I didn't. I. Like, I had heard that tearing was normal. I felt very, like, I don't need to, like, run from this. I was like, sensation of tearing and, like, it's all normal.

It'll all heal. Okay.

And.

But I didn't expect to, like, feel that happening.

And it, like. So it, like, that was a. That was a really hard place for me of, like, okay, like, her head is emerging, and I feel myself tearing, and so I don't want to hurt myself.

And, yeah, I don't even fully know how I feel about that in this moment, but just like, that, like, I have to go through.

Emily: It's a threshold. Yeah.

Yeah, that's exactly how it is. That's that. I mean, for me, that's just, I think, the best way of putting it into words for myself. And maybe others should understand, but it's a threshold, and there's no way to stop it.

Mckenna: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, there are ways to.

Emily: Like, prevent tearing smooth, but, like, really, at the end of the day, the head has to come out.

Mckenna: Yeah.

Yeah. And I do think that there's, like, I wasn't focused on softening, softening, relaxing, even though that was, like, a lot of what I had, like, fed myself while I was preparing for this.

And it felt just almost on the complete opposite end of that. Just so gritty, so rough, and, like, one of a kind.

And, yeah, I had this moment of, like, you know, I don't know how I'm going to do this. Like, I can't do this. And I was immediately met with, like, a.

You're the only one who can do this, actually. And I'm like, okay, okay.

And, yeah, and Patrick says that she opened her eyes and, like, looked around at him as she was, like, waiting to slide out.

So then she arrived, and.

Yeah, I just. I had spent so much time, like, feeling so emotional about, like, this, like, moment where, like, a mother holds their baby, and I was just in total shock, and that kind of, like, hurt my feelings that I couldn't feel, you know, like, all that.

I didn't feel.

The idea of this moment didn't feel the same as the actual moment.

And, yeah, I feel like it kind of takes, like, a turning point here of, like, okay, the cord is a little shorter than I expected. The cord doesn't look the way that I expected.

Like, it didn't look as, like, full of life. I could see, like, clots in it, and that really, like, freaked me out. She was just, like, alive and plump and, like, perfect and.

But, like, I. I was very, like, judgmental and critical of, like, every other aspect. Like, her being perfect was like, are you sure? Are you sure? Because look at this element.

And, like, what about this? And I, like, I felt so weak, like, in that immediate moment after which is another. Like, I really needed Patrick's help to, like, maneuver my way back to bed.

And I wanted the placenta out as soon as possible and started, like, struggling with that. I started. I thought that the placenta released and it was actually just a bunch of blood clots, which was freaky and scary and, like, to hold all of this matter.

They were really big. They, like. I remember them as being, like, tennis ball sized. I'm not. I think they could have been more like a golf ball size, but, like, handfuls of blood clots.

And that was so scary. Of, like, what is this? Why is this coming out of my body?

Simultaneously having these thoughts of, like, if somebody else was here, like, a medical professional, like, would we have even made it to this part? Like, there's. I just felt like there's no way, like, at this point that there wouldn't have been any interventions sort of that, like, you know, two things at once.

And, yeah, it took, I think, two hours for the placenta to release.

And it took going back to the bathtub and trying to, like, do that there, and then just the bathtub filling up with blood clots and feeling like I'm going to faint because I am losing blood and, like, doing things that look like.

Like, I was, like, crawling back to bed because, like, I could crawl. And that was like, I. I was okay if I crawled. If I stood up, that wasn't going to be okay.

And that actually continued into, like, the first, like, week after giving birth. That, like, feeling, like, just, like, not strong and lightheaded when I stood up and needing to kind of, like, bend over a lot.

And, yeah, that became this, like, gray space of us, like, really not knowing how to navigate that. Patrick also got very scared, which we've, like, talked about since, of, like, sort of, like, what would it have looked like if he, like, stood?

Like, if he, like, remained really steady of, like. Like, not worried. This is all progressing perfectly, you know, And. Yeah, and I am actually, like, curious. Like, I had just listened to sort of like, Emily and Yolanda's episode about hemorrhaging and just sort of like, what is hemorrhaging is kind of like, the core of that.

How do we define hemorrhaging? Like, blood is okay, but, like, the clots of, like, but what? Like, that's matter coming out of my body. Like, was she.

Like, was my baby, like, next to this? Like, I kind of immediately interpreted it as, like, I had had really painful periods my whole, like, for a long. For years, like, and it had just gotten worse and worse and worse, despite me kind of trying to, like, help it and aid my body.

And so I kind of thought that it was like, this release that, like, needed to happen. But I don't have, like, a ton of. I don't really have any. That's all the clarity that I have regarding that, because something did happen there.

Emily: Would you like to hear my thoughts?

Mckenna: Definitely.

Emily: So in the medical realm, anything over 500mls is what they consider a hemorrhage. And that's what they would. That's when they would give you medication, sometimes with or without consent.

However, as you know, we're all unique individuals. Some Women can lose 200 to 300 MLS and feel like they're going to die. Other women can lose up to a liter and feel totally fine.

And I will say, blood looks. It looks like a lot more than it actually is, especially if it's in water. That's when it looks really bad. It does sound like you had a pretty decent bleed just from you and Patrick's both explaining it.

And, you know, the number one way to prevent a bleed is to have a physiological birth. Like, that is truly, like, the safest way to keep that chemistry intact. Because after the placenta shears off the uterine wall, you want the uterus to continue to clamp down.

And in order for that to happen, you need to have that oxytocin surging. And if fear, which is like adrenaline and cortisol, get introduced, then there are layers of muscle in the uterus that then release norepinephrine, which keeps the vessels from being able to clamp down.

Like, it. It's what a lot of times happens when they say, like, failed labor, failure to progress. It's because fear was introduced and the womb actually can't clamp down.

Like, it. Like, it needs to. And, you know, there's a lot of very large vessels that attach from the uterus into the placenta, and that's how the blood supply goes.

Now, if you've had really nasty periods, like, maybe something was going on with the vasculature in your womb. I don't know, maybe you were more primed to bleed. I. I have no idea.

That's just an idea.

But, like, as the. As the placenta is coming off the wall, it will bleed back behind there, and that causes the clots. And that's normal. Like, it's normal to bleed.

But it always comes down to, how does the mother feel?

So if you were feeling, like, weak, faint, lightheaded, you know, you're still bleeding for an extended period of time, like, large amounts. That is. You know, that's a concern. If I were there with you, I would have been like, how are you feeling?

Like, what do you want to do about this? You know, there's. There's things you can do at home, but the number one thing is keeping the environment calm and, like, energetically super clear.

Right. So, like, fear being injected. I understand. Like, it's valid. Like, of course that was frightening.

And keeping you and baby together is also really, really crucial.

You know, they say nipple stimulation, I, like, hate that. But, like, the baby being on the breast, suckling on the breast, that also stimulates oxytocin to be flowing. But if you're in a state of fight or flight, you know, that's the first thing that has to be remedied because you can't get to the place that you need to be for the bleeding to be controlled in that way.

And sometimes, too, like, if that you. If the. If the placenta was, like, still up in your womb and there's a lot blood clots in your womb, that actually prevents the uterus from being able to contract down because there's all this stuff still in the uterus.

So that's a problem too, which. That's why medicalized people, they want that placenta out sooner, because as soon as that's out, then they know that the uterus can contract other things.

If your bladder's full, it can prevent the uterus from being able to contract all the way, which can, you know, increase your risk of bleeding.

Yeah, kind of. Also, it just comes back to that.

Like, it's shocking. Right? Like, that's what I mean by. Even a physiological birth can be traumatic because it's like, it is shocking. It's shocking.

And that's why I love free birth. Like, I'm a big free birth advocate, but I'm Also a huge advocate of, like, having wise women there with you to, like, anchor the space.

To anchor it because it is fucking wild and unpredictable. And like, whatever you need to keep the space clean and clear and anchored is. Is really important for your safety.

Because, you know, I'm not of the dogmatic mindset that, like, birth works every time. Everyone should free birth. Like, I'm just not, you know, birth works most of the time, but.

Yeah. So I don't know if that answers your question or gives you any sort of.

Mckenna: It definitely provides more context.

So is there any way of, like, having a knowing of, like, were the blood clots there or were they developing? Like, as that was happening?

Emily: They were most likely developing unless the placenta was pulling away from your uterus before the baby was born and there was some bleeding, but you probably would have seen some blood coming out of your vagina at that point too, but maybe not.

The only reason you would have been bleeding is if the placenta had come away from the wall. So whether that happened before she was born a little bit, which you said there were clots in the cord, which, I mean, that happens.

That can happen. I don't know how long there was a pulse in the cord and how long the blood was flowing, but usually it's only a couple of minutes before it actually does separate.

The blood stops. And when blood stops, it clots.

Yeah. So those are my thoughts. And again, like, I'm not a midwife. This isn't medical advice, but this is. This is education that I have come across and what I know to be true.

Mckenna: Yeah, it's really hard to find any.

If you, like, are just researching online, like, blood clots and birth, like, I feel like I've tried every combination and it's like, basically just like, if you are having blood clots after you've given birth in, like, the days that follow, the size of them is important.

Like, in terms of, like, how, like, dangerous, I guess.

And so that. Yeah, I just, like, I haven't been able to find very much.

Emily: Well, I can tell you for sure it is normal to have big, huge honkin blood clots come out with a placenta. It's. And like I tell you again, like, it looks shockingly like a lot.

But, like, as a nurse and as someone who's witnessed birth, like, it's a lot. It's a lot. Like, it can fill your hands up and. Wow. And like, when I birthed my placenta, half the bowl was blood clots and half the bowl was the placenta.

And then you know, anything probably a little larger than like what you could hold in your hand.

Mckenna: The la.

Emily: The next couple days after birth. Like it shouldn't be too, too, too big, like, but there can be some pretty big size clots coming out in the days after birth as well.

And then they should taper off and if they don't, then, you know.

Mckenna: Yeah.

Emily: Check in with your intuition, see what you think needs to happen.

Mckenna: Yeah. So there was nothing that like there was pea sized. I guess that's not nothing but pea sized blood clots. Like three to five of them after all. Like after the placenta arrived and was delivered.

Yeah. We were very worried and afraid and I just like the further away that I've gotten from that, it's like, yeah, like, everything was good. We had this like very scary week of like, like first because once she was out of my body, I, it was like I didn't have that same sort of like, you're good, you know, because like I had never spent that much time with like a fresh baby who just arrived earthside.

And.

Yeah. And it's just like, it's foreign and so there's nothing to sort of like, like have that as like a steady. And she was, she had all of her like meconium poops, but then she wasn't.

She didn't poop for five full days after that.

That was so scary. And it was immediately like, I don't know, this sort of like I had part of that sort of like hearing all of these stories in the free birth world was like.

Yeah. And I. And I knew everything was okay with my baby and I didn't need anyone to like validate and I, I like almost immediately felt like I would love somebody to just like, yep, good and perfect, like totally fine.

And the emotions that. That was like stirring up because I'm also like fully blasted open. I feel like I'm like sort of like almost like cleaning out these like deep trenches of myself that like I don't normally have access to.

Just, you know, on a Wednesday in the middle of the day.

Emily: Yeah.

Oh, I just want to, you know, give you a hug right now and just. It's so, it's so okay to ask for help and it's so understandable. And it's such.

I don't want to say it's normal or common, but like all those things, like in those moments of being a newborn mom with your newborn baby, you've never done this before.

Of course you want to know that everything's okay. And of course you you know, want to have that support in that moment. And.

Yeah, it's okay to ask for help.

Mckenna: Yeah. And like, there's nothing wrong with, like, your motherly instinct for wanting just like your own support and, like, reassurance.

Emily: Yes.

Mckenna: Yeah.

Yeah. That was a huge. And so just like, I feel like, very led into this experience by era. Our baby, like, her soul, you know, was like, helping us on this journey to this point.

I feel very firmly that that's sort of like. And the other side is okay too, you know, like, we're not running from anything. We are not avoiding, like, this, like, monster at the hospital.

It's all okay. And so, yeah, we did end up going to see just like your stereotypical, like, terrible pediatrician, like, very, like, belittling and.

Yeah. And it felt like just as much a part of that, like, rite of passage, you know, of like, yep, we can go in there and we can stand our ground and, you know, confirm that everything is good.

And, you know, we have since found, like, a doctor sort of like, in the middle, you know, who is, like, supportive of us, but is, like, a doctor. And like, we go to our little visits, which I did not expect for us, and, like, there's nothing wrong with either.

And it is, like, doing about, like, doing what you feel is best and right. And.

Yeah.

Yeah, that is how she arrived.

Emily: Wow. So much medicine. Do you feel like you would do things differently? Have a different plan for your next babe, or would you let them guide you or what are you thinking?

Mckenna: I desire, like, sisterhood and, like, community in this realm so much. Like, not even just about, you know, birth, but just having, like, women in my corner that I don't feel like I'm defending or explaining myself to that.

It's just like, they get it. And.

Yeah. So in the future, I would love just like, somebody who can just hold space and be that wise woman that we sort of spoke of earlier.

And I'm like, at this point in time, I feel like working through kind of. We were new to this area and because of sort of my experience in life so far, I presently, I'm working through these, like, limiting beliefs of, like, I made two friends this year.

Like, that's really good for me. Like, I have two decent relationships, but I'm just, like, looking for that, like, mindedness and, like, I deserve, like, a circle, you know, of, like, I know that you lead circles and things, but just like, that sort of like, sense of like, a circle of women.

Like, we're like, we're not identical, but, like, that like, like minded of, like, it's all. It's all okay.

And like, we believe you. We trust you.

I trust them. Like, I. Throughout, like, being pregnant, I really came to terms with, like, I don't trust people. That makes sense. But I should change that. You know, I should, like, address that and overcome it.

Emily: So.

Mckenna: Yeah, I would love somebody else present woman, just on the same page.

Emily: Yeah.

Mckenna: And that would have been more ideal. Yeah.

Emily: Yeah, I feel you on that. Yeah, I kind of think too, like, I don't think I want a midwife, but I also, I absolutely want a wise woman.

Most of my labor I wanted to be alone until I needed like, some counter pressure held and then that was life saving. But you know. Yeah, but you know what?

I interviewed Jane Hardwick Collins last night, which I am so stoked about. She's one of the most amazing elder midwives out there.

But we were talking about, you know, my birth imprint. This is actually off recording. But I told her how I was pulled out with forceps and how it, like, made me into this warrior.

Like, I'm like, no one's gonna tell me what to do. And she's like, it also means it's okay to ask for help. I was like, oh, that's actually what my birth taught me because, like, I wanted to do it all on my own.

Like, I hired a midwife, but she, like, I didn't want her in the room and. But also I was like, drowning and like, needed a fucking anchor and, like, couldn't ask for help because I was like, in this mode of I can't ask for help.

And so, yeah, it just like, hit me.

Yeah, we. We are like in this hyper masculineized world. You know, you mentioned that in the beginning of your story.

And like, yeah, there's a big unlearning, a big process happening, I think, within women's hearts and souls and minds is coming back to sisterhood and like, shedding this masculine, I can do it all by myself, you know, kind of mentality.

And I mean, I, of course, of course, like, having like a solid grounded, like, sense of self and like, confidence is so crucial. But there's something a little hyper masculine, I think about, like, not wanting to.

Mckenna: Ask for help and just like the, like, over individualized, like. Oh. I mean, we're in this sort of like, hyper individualized, like, culture and society. And when it comes to birth, I feel like that actually goes like, quite a bit to the wayside.

Emily: Yeah.

Mckenna: Which is interesting. And so I feel like it is something to be really mindful of like, which direction are we going to go if we're, like, awakening to this? Like, oh, we gotta make some changes here.

It doesn't mean, like, one thing, like, this is what it now looks like.

But yeah, just being, like, intentional of, like, because, yeah, I recognize that, like, that sort of like, not having trust for people, like, that wasn't, like, developed enough, like, trust, you know, I trust myself a lot, but I don't trust others nearly as much.

And so welcoming somebody else into my birth space, like, I'm not in a place where I can, like, navigate that. And I don't. I mean, I think that kind of.

There's only one thing to, like, navigate in the birth space. And it is like whatever is inside, you know, on your way to the stars. As you said, it's not about, like, navigating, like, social dynamics and things, but, like, I, that's a big sore spot for me.

Emily: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I, I see you in that. I, like, I feel you. Because it's, it's the same for me, which I think with the work that I do now, like holding sacred space in birth, it's like I, I'm, I'm, I'm being the person that I wanted, you know, like that quiet, wise human that like, honors and respects and reflects reassurance, intuition, self trust, but also, you know, has some wisdom.

Not that I show up as a medical anything, but just intuitively, you know, too.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm really impressed with the sisterhood in Southern Maine. Where do you guys live?

Mckenna: We live in Woolwich.

Emily: Woolwich.

Mckenna: Just past, like, Bath in Brunswick.

Emily: Okay. So you're up there just a little bit, but there's some cool people around that area.

Mckenna: Yeah.

Emily: And if you wanted to, you could make a little trip down to my circle.

Mckenna: Yeah, I would love to. Yeah.

Emily: I'd love to have you. But thank you so much for coming onto the show to share your story.

This is going to be good medicine for people.

You said you're not really on social media, but if someone wanted to reach out, is there a way that they could get in contact with you?

Mckenna: You. Yeah, I put my email in the bio and so I believe that will be in the description. Yep.

Emily: Yeah. You want to just say that again right up in the mic.

Mckenna: McKenna, Louise, C, S, E, E, like, you know, the verb at Yahoo. Yeah. Awesome. Which will be right now.

Emily: Yeah, I'll put, I'll link it in the show notes.

Mckenna: Yeah. Thank you so much. I really appreciate, you know, having, like, this space and hearing your words as well.

Emily: Received Received. Thank you so much McKenna.

Mckenna: Thank you.

Emily: Take care.

Thank you for listening through to the end. I do hope you found good medicine in today's episode and that it encourages your own soul evolution. I have a few new offers, both in person and virtual that I'd like to tell you about.

Beginning in January, I will host a free in person perinatal Women's Circle for anyone trying to conceive, pregnant or postpartum, seeking community and support. There will be a focus on preparing for natural birth and healing from birth trauma.

Children are welcome. You can sign up via my website.

I also now offer a monthly online Virtual Village circle for families seeking an empowering physiological conception, pregnancy, labor, birth and postpartum. It's just $10 a month or free when you purchase my online course.

So you want a home birth? You can. You can gain access by signing up via my website.

As always, I host Women's Circles once a month at my home in Southern Maine. All women are welcome. For details go to my website.

I have 20 years of experience in the medicalized system. I let my nursing license expire in 2023 and now I walk with women seeking a physiological, instinctual and deeply spiritual conception, pregnancy, labor, birth and postpartum journey.

I help prepare and repair for the most expansive rite of passage that women get to experience in this lifetime. It is my greatest honor and sole mission to hold sacred space and witness women as they claim their own inner authority and power.

I am a fierce advocate and guardian of natural birth using the culmination of my life's experiences including my own embodied wisdom when it comes to being a home birthing mother, nearly two decades of experience in our healthcare system and a year long sacred birth worker mentorship with Anna the Spiritual Midwich.

I support births with or without a licensed provider present at home birth centers and the hospital.

I offer birth debriefing and integration sessions for women, their families and birth workers.

I offer therapeutic one to one sessions, individually tailored mother blessings, closing of the bones and fear and trauma relief ceremonies.

If any or all of this resonates, I offer a free 30 minute discovery call if you have a birth story to share or if you're a embodied wise woman, witch healer, medicine woman.

I am also interested in sharing your contribution to our soul evolution.

You can book in via the link in the show Notes Notes thank you so much for your love and support everyone. Until next time, take really good care.