47. [BIRTH STORY] WITH JESS SHINE OF THE MATRONA -MUSINGS OF A FORMER LABOR & DELIVERY NURSE TURNED BAD ASS FREE BIRTHER

First and foremost Jess is a mother, and she loves mothers. 

Jess was a labor and delivery nurse for 10 years. Her career was dramatically ended when she was fired, from the hospital, for following the law of informed consent.

Suddenly her second home felt like hell.

Since then she’s had 2 freebirths, became a homesteader on 50 acres in North Idaho, and joined forces with Whapio of The Matrona as the Director of Programs.

Jess loves sharing her wisdom with her community. 

She wants her stories and experiences to start conversations about whether or not the hospital is the best place for birth. 

@⁠badassbirthkeeper⁠

@ whapio_and_thematrona

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Music The Ancients (feat. Loga Ramin Torkian) by Azam Ali

Disclaimer:

The information and resources provided by me are not intended to constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice or a Mother’s intuition. Instead, all information provided is intended for education purposes only. My advice is not to be seen as medical diagnosis or to treat any medical illness or condition of Mother or baby/fetus.

Please be advised the following transcript was AI generated so there will be errors

Welcome to Soul Evolution.

My name is Emily, also known as the Birth Advocate. I am a retired nurse, health coach, women's circle and ceremony facilitator, and the host of this podcast. Here we dive deep to reclaim our rites of passage with a big dose of birth story medicine, intentionally curious conversations with embodied wisdom keepers, and a sprinkle of polarity as we will hold space for our men from time to time too.

I hope you find nourishment for your soul here, as you probably heard my course so youo Want a Home Birth? Your complete guide to an empowering, physical, theological birth is now available.

You can listen to episode 41 to hear all about it, or you can go to my website www.birthadvocate.me course to learn more. I have poured my heart and soul into this complete guide to an empowering, physiological home birth course.

You will walk away feeling ready, body, mind and soul, knowing that everything you need to birth your baby already exists with within you. Your questions will be answered, guaranteed. Your fears will be quelled.

I walk you through, step by step exactly how to prepare yourself, your partner and your home for the most incredible experience you get to have in this lifetime. Birth is a sacred rite of passage worthy of honoring.

Do not leave it up to chance.

Stay tuned after the show to learn all about my Beyond Adola offerings both in person and virtually worldwide. If you're enjoying the content, please consider a donation to help cover the cost of production.

I alone schedule, record, edit and produce this beautiful labor of love. You can either donate through my website www.birthadvocate.me donate or simply venmo me at the Birth Advocate.

Reading your reviews on itunes and seeing the ratings on Spotify just makes my day. Please, if you haven't yet, take the time to do so now. It really helps expand the reach and send this episode to someone who needs it.

You will find photos and videos of my guests on my Instagram account, Earth Advocate. You can always email me at connectirthadvocate me. I'd love to hear from you. Now let's drop in to today's episode.

Today I am bringing you Jess.

Jess is a mother of four.

She was a labor and delivery nurse for 10 years. Her career was dramatically ended when she was fired from the hospital for following.

The law of informed consent. Suddenly her second home felt like hell.

And since then she has broken free from the system, having two free births, becoming a homesteader on 50 acres in North Idaho and she joined for with Wapio of the Matrona as the director of Programs.

Jess loves sharing her wisdom with her community.

She wants her stories and experiences to start conversations about whether or not the.

Hospital is the best place for birth.

And you will see that she is a very talented weaver as she brings in all of her 10 years of experience with her own embodied wisdom when.

It comes to being a birthing mother.

This is also an episode for the.

Fathers as we touch on their experience as well.

So please share this episode and I hope you enjoy.

Let's drop in.

Welcome, Jess, to the podcast. I was trying to remember, like, when I first found you on Instagram and when we first started following each other because it's been a while, I think I was pregnant and like going down the rabbit hole of all my research and found, I think it was Wapio.

And then I found you. And we have sort of similar stories as far as, like, being former nurses. And then you are very much in that natural birth world and I just felt a kinship with you.

And I had reached out prior and it didn't happen until now, but here you are to share about you and your amazing birth story. So welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much. Yeah, I can be hard to nail down sometimes, frequently check in when I say yes, but that's just a life I'm in.

Yeah, I get it, I get it. You there with that precious baby on the boob.

So why don't you just give a little brief introduction about yourself, tell people who you are and. And. And what's up.

Yeah, so it's like, where to start? Right. I'm Jess and so I'm a mother of four now. Two babies born naturally in the hospital and then two babies freeborn at home.

And I was a labor and delivery nurse for 10 years. So, you know, started my introduction to birth in the hospital. You know, when I first started, that's all I knew was what the medical model with the hospital, what my coworkers had told me.

And it's, it's interesting because every hospital you work at, you learn something new. And so things are so jaded by the climate of whatever hospital you're working at.

And then, so that was my career for a long time. And when I lost my job, it's crazy, the doors that opened up for me. And so now I'm the director of programs at the Matrona.

And so I help her coordinate birth keepers midwifery cohort that we do and help her run her social media and get a teach. And so that's my favorite thing is just being able to share my experience and My stories with anyone who wants to listen.

And that way they can help the people that they serve really find the best place to have a baby. Because for most people, the hospital is not the best place to have a baby.

In my spare time, you know, I'm taking care of my four little kids and we have a 50 acre homestead here in North Idaho. So we have like, you know, all the animals, which I'm downsizing.

Cause I'm kind of a go big or go home person. And I took on a little bit more, and I can admit that. And I really had hoped to like, you know, do farmer's markets and take produce to the, you know, to my community.

And Mother Nature is a really hard coworker and I'm a really not a very good farmer. And so I'm kind of taking a step back and realizing I love my personal garden.

I don't want, you know, a two acre garden that I'm taking to market. What else? Yeah, I love all things birth. I love mothers.

And I really like sharing my experiences, especially to dads, because I feel like when dads hear that I'm a nurse and then they hear my stories, it creates a pause.

That's all we need, right? It's just a pause where you're like, well, what if. Well, yeah, why are we having a baby at the hospital? What? You know, and I love seeing those wheels turn and seeing people wake up to the questions and the possibilities out there.

I love that you mentioned that on this podcast here, I interview also dads to get their version of the birth story. Because I just. When I hear all these amazing birth stories and then I hear about, you know, what the dad, like, they're talking about the dad, you know, he caught the baby or he was standing there, he like held, you know, the supportive, energetic sphere.

He was the mountain. I'm like, man, I really want to hear what his experience was, his internal experience. So I bring them on. But I also, there's so many stories where you hear he, you know, the dad isn't comfortable birthing at home.

And so it's actually they default and let him make this decision about her physiology, her process, her rite of passage. I'm like, very firm on it's the mother's decision. Like, I get it that it can be difficult, but I'm.

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it like it is the mama's decision. So anyway, before I get on my rampage about that, I'd love to hear about your, you know, your birth experiences in the hospital.

Do you want to just start with your first bir birth and dive in.

Yeah, and I kind of want to start with, like, I was always kind of a. Like a hippie nurse. Right. So I'd always take the birth plan. Yeah. Like, someone's like, oh, I don't want this V back today.

I'm like, I'll take the V back. You know, Like, I wanted to support women who really had put thought and intention into their birth, you know, versus the person who shows up and wants their induction and the epidural and all the things.

So, like, I've always been passionate about natural birth.

And really, just a quick side story, when my first hospital, we didn't do VBACs. And so this kind of woke me up to, like, birth not being true in the hospital.

And so, you know, my very first job, VBACs were not allowed in the hospital. And not only that, but the climate at the hospital was. V vacs are deadly. And so I started my career believing that V vacs were deadly and that anyone wanting a VBAC was putting their life and their child lives in danger and that they were selfish, you know?

And so I started my first. My first part of my career that way. And then I moved up into the Portland, Oregon area, where VBACs are normal. Yeah. And I'm like, wait, I just drove 400 miles, and now VBACs aren't deadly anymore.

You know, and so I think that's one of the. One of those, like, catalysts in my life where it was like, oh, what we're saying at birth, it just depends on the doctor.

It doesn't depend. It's not on science. It's not based on fact. It's based on opinion, really. I mean, and that hospital.

Yeah, Southern Oregon is still a really hard place to have a vbac. You know, most of the hospitals won't offer them, and most of the nurses don't feel comfortable because they've believed it for so long.

Hmm.

Well, let's just throw the stat out there. So the risk of uterine rupture is 0.2 to 0.9%

for a VBAC MOM, which is actually a 99.8% chance of success.

Yes. And not only that, even. What? Someone who doesn't have a uterine scar has a risk of an abruption, you know? Exactly. So, yeah, I'm like, let's have the conversation. Let's give all the statistics and all the facts.

And that's something I'm very passionate about. Like, I don't really Care what a family decides. You want to go with an induction and epidural and have a completely medicalized birth, I will support you.

I just want to be sure that you understand all this, all the sides of the spectrum and that way you can make an educated decision and the right decision for your family.

Because every family is different.

Yeah. So my first two babies were born in the hospital.

My son was a super traumatic birth. He's my first. It took us three years to get pregnant with him. And so, you know, during that three years I was experimenting on myself because modern medicine again let me down.

I go to the doctor and I'm like, I've been trying to get pregnant for a year. I've not been on birth control forever and not gotten pregnant. What's up? And they're like, well, you know, you have PCOS and unexplained infertility and here's some metformin and here is some Clomid and take these drugs and you'll get pregnant.

I'm like, I'm a young woman in my 20s, I don't want to take drugs. I want to know why I can't get pregnant. I want to know why I'm only cycling four times a year, you know, and no one could give me those answers.

And so I started researching on myself and I call it, I call it do it yourself medicine. That's like my life, you know, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna figure out how to do acupressure because I don't have the time and the money to go to an acupuncturist all the time.

And so I've done medicine that way. And so I experimented with diets and I tried everything. I tried being vegan, I tried like every diet you can think of. You know, 11 years ago, keto wasn't really on the realms yet, but I tried whole 30 and finally I found out that I couldn't eat grains and I couldn't eat sugar and my cycle started to become normal.

And then the very first time in my life that I going to have a 28 day cycle, I got my positive and so on that. Yeah, isn't that cool? I'm like the one day I was going to have like a real cycle and I'm taking supplements, I'm doing everything, you know, and so that pregnancy is precious to me.

Right. I've worked really hard for that baby. And so I know that I don't want any drugs in the hospital.

I know that I'm not going to Be in the hospital very long because the longer you're there, the more likely they are to mess with you. Right.

So you were already a labor and delivery nurse at this point?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And had been for what, four years? Four years. Three years.

And so I was gonna have my baby at the hospital I was working at, you know, with my friends, with my coworkers, with people that I trust, my, you know, my.

My second family. And so I felt like, well, do I need a doula? No, I don't need a doula because I'm having my baby with my friends, and home birth was on the pay on the table, even with that first birth.

But it's really hard when my birth can be free at the hospital or $5,000 out of pocket, you know, and so, like, I'm like, no, I don't need a home birth.

I'll just have a birth at maybe the hospital. I'll leave right away. It will be fine.

Can I ask a question? Did you ever see, like, I. I don't actually believe there can be a physiological birth in the hospital, but did you see women having a more undisturbed natural birth in the hospital?

Did you see that ever?

So that last birth. Well, it wasn't the last birth. The birth that started the catalyst of me losing my career was the closest thing I've ever seen to undisturbed in the hospital.

And it was amazing. And I was like, let's do it again. You know, And I mean, just the fact that's why. That's why I lost my job is because that family controlled their birth and they had.

And it wasn't undisturbed. She needed a little bit of Pitocin. She had support.

But really it was the closest thing I've seen in the hospital. The other times I've seen, like, almost physiologic is when someone comes in and just has a baby right away.

Right? Like, they come in and they're. They're pushing their complete. But then that initial postpartum isn't physiologic because we're pulling on the placenta and we're doing all the things. And so I don't consider that physiologic or undisturbed either.

Right.

One thing is, until I took Wafio's training in 2019, I didn't even know the word physiologic birth. He asked me at that training, what would you. She's like, looks at me and goes, what would you do if someone asked for a physiologic?

Birth. And I would say. I'm like. I would say, I don't know what that means, because I didn't. I never.

I want to completely co. Sign what you're saying here or validate or whatever, because I was a nurse as well, and I hadn't actually put that in my mind either. I think I heard Ina May talk about it, like, years and years ago, and I was like, a physiological birth.

What? What? What? But even as a nurse, it didn't click.

Well, I had never. Nurse. When you're a nurse, it's all about managing, right? I'm managing birth. I'm not witnessing. I'm watching for a complication. And that's. I mean, that's what we're taught as nurses.

That's what we're doing in the hospital. Everyone is an emergency until proven otherwise. And you're not proven otherwise until you're discharged, which doesn't seem very fair, you know?

So. Yeah, no, I had never. That wasn't even on my radar. And even.

Yeah, so you went into the hospital wanting an unmedicated birth, but you weren't of the awareness yet of, like, true, physiological, undisturbed birth.

Yeah, I didn't really even understand how important birth was until 2019 when I took Wapio's training. When I sat there at Wapio's feet, and I was like, my mind was just blown the whole time, like, oh, we're not missing a tiny.

Like, we're not. I thought, oh, we're missing things in the hospital. And I sat there and I'm like, we're not missing things. We're missing all of it. You know, like, we've missed the boat completely in the hospital.

And that's. I mean, that was my birth with my son. It was super traumatic. It was unmedicated. I was only there for, like, 45 minutes, an hour before I had him.

And in that hour, the midwife was in my room five times, and she was like, I don't want an iv. And she came in. I really think you should have an iv.

No, thank you. Walks out. I'm like, basically a transition, right? Like, I'm getting ready to have a baby. She comes in again, you know, your GBS positive, and I know you don't want antibiotics, but I think you should have clindamy or not clindamycin.

I think you should have vancomycin. And I'm like, literally in, like, the throes of hard labor, and I'm like, no, vancomycin is not known to cross the placenta but plus, I'm sensitive to every drug I've ever taken.

I'm not going to about to have an antibiotic reaction in the middle of my labor. You know what I mean? No. And then she comes back in again and said something else five times.

The fifth time she comes in, she goes, your baby's looking kind of sleepy. You know, I'm worried about the strip. I think we should have an iv. And I was like, get me a glass of juice.

You know what I mean? And so I'm, like, in transition, like, fighting for myself, which is not how it's supposed to be.

And the thing about that, that was the only midwife I didn't want me to deliver me. If I had to pick anyone on the floor, like, it had to be you.

Like, oh.

And she got her I.V. in the end, without consent, right As I was pushing, they claimed the baby was having D cells. And before I knew it, there was an IV in my hand.

And I'm like, that's not okay. I said no five times very clearly. It was in my chart, you know, and actually, my husband can't even talk about that birth because she went to do, like, a sweep for clots after the birth, which I realized afterwards she does with every patient.

She says that every mother is hemorrhaging, and she puts her hand inside basically every mother. You know, those are the statistics I want published online. I want to know, how many times do you hang antibiotics?

How many times do you have to go back for a dnc? Like, why are you seeing triple, quadruple the number of hemorrhages as the other midwife? Because I want to pick that one.

I don't want an emergency, but my husband will start to talk about it, and he can't even finish the sentence. And my son is 11, you know, and that's one thing about fathers is we don't talk about the trauma that happens to fathers in hospital births because they're completely forgotten about.

You know, I remember looking up and pushing. I look at my husband, and he looks green, and there's no chairs around. I'm like, somebody get my husband. I'm pushing. I'm having a baby.

I'm medicated in the hospital. I'm like, somebody get my husband a chair. He's gonna faint. Like you guys take. He's tall. He's gonna fall. You know, he just needed to sit down for a second, and then he was back on it.

And what sucked about that birth was the midwife came in the last time she asked for an iv. She.

I call it manipulation. I don't even know what form of manipulation this would be, but she says, oh, I get it. You want a home birth at the hospital. And I was like, yes.

And so then I thought that she understood me, and I thought that I could trust her, but it was a trick, right? She wanted me to let my guard down, and I realized that very clearly now, But I didn't at the moment.

And the birth gets worse because, you know, I was GBS positive group beta strep positive, and I refused antibiotics, so the hospital said that I had to stay for three days.

And I put the air quote, so had to. And I didn't know better then. I still. Even as a nurse, I fell for those. Had to, have to.

Nothing is mandatory in the hospital. We can say no to anything. Anything you want. You can say no to answering questions, you know, like, you have the right to completely dictate what happens in that room.

That's your legal right. But I didn't even know that as a nurse.

And so day three, you know, I kept that baby on my chest. He was skin to skin those three days, and his temperature was always a little bit high, you know, like, 99.

And I could tell that they were worried, but I just ignored them. And the one day I got a nap. I wake up. It's like, literally the only time I've really slept.

And Ryan's holding the baby, and I wake up, and the room is empty, and they've taken my baby to the nursery, and they didn't want to wake me up, and they did a blood culture on him without my permission.

Oh, my God.

You know, and they had Ryan's permission, but Ryan didn't know any better because I didn't do a good job of setting him up for success because I didn't know any better.

And I'm like, how dare you take my baby out of the room and trick my husband into saying, oh, it's okay, because we're gonna let her rest. Like, oh, just let her sleep.

This is. This is completely routine testing. Just let her sleep.

Wrong, right?

And then, as if that's not enough to be traumatized enough as a birth, you know, I've had a manual sweep. I've had a nurse manipulated. Manipulated by the midwife.

We've signed the discharge papers. We're supposed to leave, and shift change happens, and a new pediatrician comes on, and she decides, you know what? You can't leave. Your baby's very sick.

And Everett had a ton of terminal Meconium. So, like, on his way out, he pooped, like, copious amounts. Pea soup, fluid. Like, so much poop, right? And he didn't poop them for the three days we were there.

And I kept saying, like, I'm not worried about it, you guys. He's passing gas. He's eating great. And they kept coming. They listened to his belly, and they try and plant fear, and I'm like, my baby's perfect.

I'm sorry. My baby's perfect.

And then the third day, that new. That new pediatrician comes on, and she goes, your baby's not well. He has Hirschsprung's disease. He. The nerves don't go, like, insane as it's fact, right?

Like, not like, I think we need to do X rays. I want to make him npo, which means nothing by mouth. My breastfed baby. I want to start an iv, and I want to transfer you to the nicu.

Oh, my gosh.

And I remember just sitting there and, like, obviously, I'm crying, right? They're telling me my baby is very, very ill and is. And they're prepping him for surgery. Like, she's already prepping him for surgery.

And I'm crying, and I have a nurse sitting next to me. And, like, you know, you're the pediatrician. I turned on my nurse friend. I'm like, if it was any other pediatrician besides her, I'd actually believe it, but I just don't trust her.

But it was true. Like, this pediatrician, she freaks out about a lot of things. But what do you do when they tell you that your baby's gonna die if you don't listen?

If you don't listen, you don't get transferred, Your baby could die. Your baby could go septic, and your baby could die. And so I get transferred to the nicu. I have to drive it.

So everyone's first. First car ride was an ambulance ride to the NICU across town. They tried to make him npo, and I said, hell, no. They tried to place an IV and I said, hell, no.

They did the X ray, but turns out they did the wrong X ray. So when we got to the new. The. The nicu, he had to be exposed to more radiation.

And I remember, like, I'm holding him, and I'm in this tiny little room in the nicu, and. Which I just feel bad for NICU moms, like, what a horrible setup that is, right?

And. And then the nurse literally, like, laughs a little and goes, if you think you're gonna hold him, the Whole time you're here, you better like, whatever. You better think that over.

And I'm like, I will not let this baby go. Like, you will get me a chair and I will sit here and I will sleep here. Like, I am not leaving my baby here.

And you know, there's resident. I hate residents, too, but that's a whole. A whole another two hour discussion. You know, the resident comes in. It doesn't.

Oh, it's horrible. But, like, the resident comes in and they mess with my baby, and they don't tell me they're the resident, and then they leave. And then the doctor comes in to do the exact same thing.

And I'm like, I'm sorry, but my baby's too precious for you to learn on. And if I had known that, I would have said no. And there's women and babies who are fine for you to learn on.

You can work on those. You need to be honest about what. Who you are and what you're doing. And so they do another X ray, and they give him like a glycerin suppository and he poops.

And the resident comes in and says that I can leave. And I said, I'm leaving in five minutes. I want the paperwork here now. Like you said, I can leave.

I'm leaving. And so we're like, out the door as quickly as possible. We're driving home, and I get a call from the surgeon. And he goes. And he's just pissed, right?

This is angry voice on the phone. I can't believe they discharged you. I'm not convinced that your son doesn't have Hirschsprung's. He is very ill. And you need to come back into my office.

And we need to do a rectal biopsy. And he's just going off. Yeah. So then I'm like, well, I'm not coming back to the hospital today. And he goes, you can come to my clinic and do it.

And so the next day, I had to drive back into Portland. Like, an hour. You know, I'm three days postpartum. You know, I have stitches, I'm bleeding, I'm exhausted. The milk is starting to come in, and he's still not poop.

Like, he pooped the one time from the suppository. I just. I knew. You know what I mean? Like, in my soul, I'm like, my baby's fine. I kept saying that.

I'm like, I know my baby's fine, though, you guys. I know my baby's fine. So we go and do the rectal Biopsy, which is this horrible little tube. And the surgeon is just an ass.

I'm sorry. I'm gonna curse on your thing. Totally fine.

You are welcome.

He's like, you know, these Hirschsprung babies again, just making a statement that my baby is sick. These Hirsch brown babies. As soon as I put this tube in there in his bottom, he said, explode poop.

And it took him, like, three times. And it's just like this little. This little tiny pin of a tissue sample, but it's still traumatic to me. They're like, you know, they're touching my baby in a way I don't want him touched.

And so he's like, you know, talking about surgery and next steps, and he's already diagnosed my baby, about all the things we're going to have to do. And I'm super sleep deprived.

I haven't been able to research yet. I'm, like, not cut up on sleep. My labor was 40, was what, 36, 38 hours? And so I'm, like, exhausted on top of exhausted on top of exhausted with no break.

And so at this time, I'm just, like, being guided by these people, and I'm just saying yes because I have to say yes. And so we go home, and he's like, we'll have the results in two days.

And that night, Everett just starts pooping like normal. And I'm like, thank goodness. I know he was fine. And guess what? His poop is completely transitioned, just like I said it would be.

I kept saying, like, is it possible that he pooped out all his meconium and there's just, like, no meconium left? And so, like, now we just have to wait for the transitional stool, and everyone's telling me no.

And that night, I do some research, and I find out that the experts are completely split. 50. 50 if terminal met counts as a poop, and rules out Hirschsprung's or doesn't.

And so he calls me and he says, your baby doesn't have Hirschsprungs. And I say, yes, I know my baby's fine. And just so you know, the experts are split.

And I deserve to know that. That 50% of pediatricians say that a terminal mechanic counts as really not against Hirschsprungs, because if you guys had told me that, I wouldn't have agreed to any of this.

And he said, that's not how I practice. Click.

Oh, my God.

That's my initiation into motherhood, you know, at the hospital I work at.

And so that was like, another, like, one of Those moments where I was like, my eyes are wide open, like, if I can't be taken care of and I can't be respected, where I work, no one stands the chance.

You know what I mean? How can a mom off the street walk in and get respectful care if me as a nurse? And, yeah, so I refuse everything, you know, I do.

I refuse the iv, I refuse all the baby meds. I'm a pain in the ass to take care of. And I know that I actually want to get a copy of my chart because I'm sure it just says lovely things about me, but I have the right to do that, and I have the right to respectful care, even if I make the nurse uncomfortable, you know?

And at that point, I hadn't really found my voice yet. You know, I feel like every one of my children blessed me with something. And so Everett was really my entrepr.

Like, I hate the word, though. The. The want to be an entrepreneur, cuz that's who he is. And so, like, in that pregnancy, I found myself wanting to set myself up in other ways so that I didn't have to work forever.

And I started talking about retiring at 40 with his pregnancy, like, and I'm gonna retire before I'm 40. I'm gonna retire before I'm 40. I didn't realize it'd be so dramatic, but, you know, your words come true.

And I was retired before I was 40, and it was Eloise who gifted me with my voice. And so with her pregnancy, my voice squeaked out. And I'm like, I don't think we should do this.

It was like the quietest little whisper of a voice. Right? But like, that. That wall that had been there my whole life of just, like, silencing myself was broke free through the pregnancy with Eloise.

And so it's kind of fun to, like, see my progression through the pregnancies and what I've learned along the way.

Yeah.

But, yeah, it really made me. I don't know. That's a horrible initiation into motherhood, that traumatic birth. And I had postpartum anxiety because of it. And I questioned myself all the time as a mother because my intuition had been staunched by everybody I cr.

Everybody I talked to. Every time I said, my baby's fine. No one said, you know what? Your intuition matters. And I'm gonna take that into account because a mom knows.

Usually, not always, but usually it should be part of the conversation.

But I still worked. I still loved my job. You know, it wasn't until the very end of my career that I realized how bad my job was, you know, and that's because I was working at a different hospital.

Yeah, Well, I mean, when you're immersed in that environment and that is your everyday, you know, it is kind of hard to see the bigger picture. Yeah.

So.

So then how long before you became pregnant again?

Oh, I didn't want any more kids. Which is funny now that I have four. Right. I have a million kids now. It was so hard. That transition to motherhood was so hard.

And I literally. I had postpartum anxiety. But I'm not an anxious person. That's just not who I am. And the way I got rid of it was really interesting, which is, like, a quick side note, but because I've never done it before and I've never done after.

It was cranial sacral therapy. And I'm doing it for Everett because I thought Everett was traumatized from the whole event. Really, it was me that was traumatized. And she got me up on her table.

She's like, oh, I always do moms and babies together because you guys are a duo. Like, I have to do you together. And I'm like, okay. And she's like, you know, doing her thing and not even touching me, and I'm just bawling.

And she goes, oh, darling, a seed of anxiety was planted at plant it in you at your birth, and it's not yours. Can I remove it?

Please remove it. And I literally walked out of her office feeling great. It was gone. It wasn't my anxiety. It was the midwife's anxiety that she had brought into my room.

And because when we're giving birth, we're the most open we ever are physically. You know, our cervix is this big. You literally can't be more physically open. And spiritually, you're open also.

And so what gets carried into your room can get left behind. And it did in my case.

That is such powerful medicine right there. It is so true. Pregnancy, the birth, postpartum, we are so porous. We are so wide open.

Yeah. And so it really does matter who you pick to be at your birth and who you pick to surround yourself. And if you don't have a choice, then you find someone with a big energy who can guard you and you can protect that space for you, you know, because there are people that can do that.

But, yeah. So then I'm like, well, I don't want any more kids.

I'll just have the one. And then whenever it was like three, him and Ryan are like, well, we really want another baby. And I'm like, all right, fine. I'll give you one month, Ryan.

You get one month to get me pregnant. And if you get me pregnant in one month, then it's meant to be, you know? And I'm like, and I will do my part.

I'll take all the supplements, and I'll do all the things I did to get pregnant with Everett. And if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. And obviously, I have four kids, so we got pregnant in one month after three years of trying the first time.

Wow. Which is kind of fun. So, like, I'll share. You know, my formula has changed since then because I'm like, well, now I know more about homeopathy and energy, and I feel like I really forced my body the first pregnancy of, like, supplements and diet and really just trying to force it.

Whereas now I just More welcome pregnancies.

Yeah.

And with her, like I said, my daughter speaks her mind. That's who she is. Like, she has this, like, very strong sense of justice. And in my pregnancy, I couldn't not speak my truth, you know?

And there was still a lot I would hide. You know, Like, a lot of my coworkers didn't know that my kids weren't vaccinated. You know, a lot of my coworkers still don't know that my kids aren't vaccinated, because it's a conversation that we just can't have.

But I started speaking up at birth, and I started calling things out that weren't right. Right. And I started finding my own voice. And so from, like, I think, like, eight or nine weeks on, I was like, I'm not having my baby here, you guys.

Like, that hospital actually did kind of have bad mojo. And just weird things would happen at that hospital. And I'm like, you all. I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with you guys, but bad things happen here.

And I'm not having my baby here. But again, I didn't want to pay for home birth. So that time I called a home birth midwife, I talked a little bit, I got the numbers, and I decided, ah, free is so much better than $5,000 fall for her a second time.

Right? And so, you know, I decided for a hospital birth. I decided to drive all the way to Vancouver to see a midwife that I really trust. And she was an amazing midwife.

And that's, like, a whole nother story, because the system totally hijacked her. And I've Watched her lose her love of mothers and her ability to really care for mothers in the hospital by incentive given by the hospital.

And she doesn't even realize it's happening to her dad. But she was amazing when I was there. And so I just kind of tell my coworkers, I would have my baby in the car, and you guys can come and get me out of the car and clean me up and do the paperwork, and then I'm gonna go home right afterwards.

And so that was, like, my birth plan. I'm like, I'm not. I'm not having my baby here. I don't have my baby with you guys. And I literally would just tell anyone who would listen about my birth plan, you know, And I think by then, you know, I'm a unique person.

And so I feel like my coworkers, they tolerate me, right? I'm entertaining. They think I'm. They think I'm absolutely insane, most of them. And I'm like, that's okay. I think you guys are insane.

So her, you know, 40 weeks comes, it passes, 41 weeks comes, it passes. And again, that midwife actually kind of coursed me into a membrane sweep that I didn't want, you know?

And I go to the office, and she goes, you know, I really. I really need you to deliver before 42 weeks. And I'm like, I'm not worried about it. And she goes, well, I need you to do nsts.

And I'm like, okay, fine, I'll do an sts. And I don't want an induction. I'm like, I won't. I won't have an induction. Like, I'm going to go for as long as this baby wants to go.

And even though I said that, you know, the hospital still called me every day that week from 41 weeks until I delivered at 41 and 4, 41 and 3. I got a call every day trying to schedule my induction.

And I'm like, how disrespectful. Again, I've told you what I want. I've been really clear about what I want. And you guys are just gonna keep calling and just trying to, like, badger me until I agree to what you want.

And with her, you know, I'm labor. I go into labor 41 weeks and three days. And Everett's labor had been forever. And one of my. One of my labor symptoms is the denial that I'm in labor.

That's usually a good sign that I'm actually. I'm like, no, it's fine. I'm not. It's not soon, you know?

And so, you know, we're going for a walk, and I'm getting ready to go. And so I call the hospital. I'm like, okay, I think I'm gonna head in. And I'm getting the car ready, and I get in the car, and Ryan's like, I think we should go to the closer hospital.

And I'm like, no, we have plenty of time. Plus, they know I'm coming. Like, it's 45 minutes away, and it's my friends, and, you know, I want to have a baby there.

And about halfway there, I realized, oh, no. And I look at Ryan, I go, ryan, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean it. I don't want to have this baby in the car.

I didn't mean it. It's like between every contraction, I'm like, hey, I felt like this. Like, I felt so wild and so raw. Like, my wi. My face is out the window.

I'm just, like, howling into the rain. Cause it's raining. Ryan's driving as fast as he can down the road. I'm, like, in transition. And then in between contractions. I'm so sorry.

I didn't mean it. I don't want to have the baby in the car.

And we're driving, and so, like, in between a contraction, I call the hospital again, and I'm like, you guys, I'm on my way, and I'm going to be the gurney, and I'm pushing, and so, like, you know, my water had just broke, and it's like, this baby's coming.

So she wasn't born in the car. She was like. When I got out of the car, there was this much of her head showing, though. And so she was born in the emergency room.

I was in the hospital for, like, 30 seconds. And that birth was actually really cool because I had been so open about what I wanted and what I didn't want, and they had kind of accepted we were a new hospital.

When I had my son, they. They had accepted me, and they loved me, and they guarded me more. So in the er, the ER nurse tried to start an iv and my nurse friend goes, don't you dare.

She'll slap you. Like, don't even try. And so, like, it was such a different experience.

And I left at 16 hours. I'm like, okay, now I'm gonna go home. Like, I've had my dinner. I'm stable. Things are fine. And we left. And so, really, for a hospital birth, it was a really good experience.

But one. Because I Knew how to stand up for myself and how to talk about what I wanted. And two, because I was only there for a very short amount of time.

No, as little time as possible.

So how long was that labor in total?

Oh, of like, active. I should keep track of these things. It's been so long. It was not that long. And it was, like, so pokey, you know, it was like. I remember going for a walk and being like, yeah, this is labor.

But, like, it's not, like, active labor. And that's kind of how my births go, though. It's like, is this? Is this? And then it's like, active baby. And so, like, once I get really active, it goes crazy.

I think it was six or eight hours. So from 28. And Everett's was over two nights. I started at 9pm and so, like, I didn't sleep for two days, you know, besides little micro naps.

And his labor was long because I was scared to become a mother. You know, I have a lot of mother wounds that I didn't realize. I'm still working.

Yeah.

And so, like, he was posterior, and I kind of blamed him. Posterior. But I'm like, no, it was me. I had to mentally wrap my mind around really stepping into that and stepping into motherhood.

And so it was hard. And with Eloise, I was like, okay, I'm ready. Let's do it. And so it's much easier. But, yeah, I think like, six.

Six or eight hours.

And that's. I tell everyone, I'm like, if you want to go to the hospital, show it pushing.

Yeah.

They can't mess with you. You know what I mean? Bring it back. Bring a bodyguard. Like, if you want a hospital birth, you really need to have backup for your husband or for your partner, because they should be able to just enjoy the birth.

And they're going to guard you, but they need somebody to be whispering to them, like, hey, it looks like they're getting ready to check a cervix. Does she want that?

And that way he could be like, hey, she doesn't want that. You know, and just having that little parrot whispering in their ear. Like, I don't think that as an.

I feel like every doula should advocate, but I think the way we're doing it is incorrect. I should not be standing up for mother. You know what I mean? I should be dad's backup, and I should be encouraging him to advocate for her because that's his job as to be the protector of the family.

And so if I can help encourage that.

Yeah, I Like, that I do. And I. And I also feel like.

Well, I just don't advocate for hospital births at all unless the mother's unhealthy. But, you know, I feel like dad should be able to be fully present with mom and not having to be, you know, like, fighting and advocating and doing all of that.

But. But yeah, I agree.

Yeah. And that's what I would do. That's actually kind of what started me down my doula path, is I would take the camera from dad. It's like they're so busy trying to get the perfect angles of that new baby.

And I'm like, you're missing this precious moment. Cause you're trying to capture pictures for mom, which is so sweet, but let me do that. You know what I mean? And so I would take dad's camera and I would take pictures.

And it was at a birth where I was like, taking pictures. And I'll go. And I said, in my next life, I'm going to be a doula birth photographer. And then I went home that night and started researching doula programs.

Because I'm like, well, you know, I only have one life and we have this one.

Was that after she was born?

So, yeah, after she was born, we moved into an RV and we lived in RV for three years and traveled around. And I always worked for the same hospital system, but I transferred down to Northern California because I could make double the money down there.

And so my goal was to get out of debt. Cause I wanted to buy a farm. And so that was down there. And that. That hospital.

I felt like I like, went into, like a third world country, almost like it was the same hospital system. And so I expected things to be very similar.

And like, even the supplies weren't similar. And the lack of supplies and I mean, talk about hospital meals. I've always worked at hospitals that at least had, like, decent chefs and decent food.

This hospital was like microwave trays. And I was like, oh, it was so gross. You know what I mean? Like, everything about that hospital was so.

What's the word? Factory. Like, you know what I mean? It was a factory. It was a baby factory. Every aspect of it was a baby factory.

And it was really hard for me. I'm like, where did I end up?

But again, I needed to see that because I had been at decent hospitals with really caring. And I feel like nurses everywhere are caring. Right. It's the hospital, like the hospital administration and the doctors and how many residents you have that can really change the dynamic of a hospital.

Yeah, totally.

Agree.

I think that our healthcare system is full of people with good hearts and good intentions.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. And then some people who are doing it for power and who are doing it for a title, and that's scary because medicine was never supposed to be a title.

Yeah.

You know, your doctor should be into it because they care about people and they want to see people heal, not because they want to be rich and because they want initials behind their name.

Yeah. And the people, when they're burnt out, they need to call it and they need to get out.

Yeah. And that's. Well, there's no trauma care for nurses. You know, I've seen horrible things in my career. I've seen mothers die. I've seen babies die that weren't supposed to. You know, that came in and they'd had all the right testing, and the baby was healthy and normal, and the baby has genetic issues that no one knew about.

You know, it's very traumatizing. And there's nothing for me, you know, I'm expected to come back to work the next day. And it's just. It's horrible. And, like, we're not taking care of our healthcare workers.

And so then they're bringing trauma. You know, they bring every trauma into every birth.

Yes.

Well, that person was normal and she hemorrhaged. So this person's normal and she could hemorrhage, too. Yep. You know.

Yeah.

Plus, I do talk. One more thing about hospitals is they want to see emergencies. Like, do you really want to have a baby with somebody who wants to practice their skills?

Because in order to be good at their skills, they have to practice. So subconsciously they want to see emergencies so they can practice those skills. Yeah. And I didn't realize that until just last few years.

I'm like, oh, we do. We want to see a hemorrhage because we want to make sure that we're good at hemorrhages. We want to see, you know, and that's. That's an energy we bring into the room subconsciously that.

No, we're looking for the hemorrhage, looking for the emergency.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Yeah. So then, third pregnancy, I was in trouble at work. Well, let's see.

So how far between these.

Those. Your.

Your second one?

Three. Everyone's like three to four years apart. You know, I need. I want to enjoy my baby. I want to enjoy toddlerhood and even Elden. Eldon's three right now, and she was just born, and I think he could have used another year.

You know, he's still, like, he's still my baby. He still wants, like, but I have to snuggle you, mama. I'm like, so I'm, like, sleeping with, like, a million. Be, like, covered in children.

I'm being touched everywhere.

Very overwhelming sometimes.

Yeah. So that was three years, and he was the one. He was actually my only one that was, like, consciously conceived, you know, I was very aware that I wanted to get pregnant.

And even, like, the night he was conceived, I felt my womb. I saw my womb filled with light. Like, it was such a really cool experience.

Like, a really cool experience. And he's my fighter, and so he gifted me the. The desire to fight back, which I've always been very passive. I'm like, you know, I'm a lover, not a fighter.

Pregnant with him, I was in trouble at my job, you know, So I had just witnessed that beautiful birth where dad caught his baby, and, you know, like, I said, the closest thing to undisturbed I've ever seen.

And I'm like, let's do this over and over again. Like, I'm weeping with the family. The dad is weeping, the mom. Like, it's just beautiful. And I watched him become, like, Wapio says, the guardian of the birth.

Like, I. I saw him build the armor as he stood up for his wife. And he just. He created. He was praying. They were Indian, and he was doing this chant prayer.

And as he spoke, he created this bubble where there was so much drama happened in that hospital, and the doctors and nurses were saying horrible things. You're gonna rip your butt.

You're gonna rip up to your butthole, and what if your baby dies? Like. And she didn't hear any of it because he had created this, like, energetic protection around her.

Amazing. So, you know, I'm out of work. I'm set off for six months. We conceive Eldon, my third, and then they bring me back, and, you know, he gave me that desire to, like, really fight them, you know?

And so I'd go to my meetings, and I'd be like, I'm not fighting for my job anymore. Like, take my job. I don't care. I'm fighting for this birth because this birth was not wrong.

They didn't do anything wrong. And in fact, they did everything right. And they were well within their. Their constitutional rights, you know, because they kept saying, like, oh, a dad can't catch his baby because he's not a medical provider.

And I'm like, that's not true. You know, that's just not true.

And so then I Got called back to work. And like, before we were talking about, I was only. I was allowed to come back to work. And HR said to me, this is an olive branch that I didn't want to extend to you.

Like, oh, welcome back. Thanks so much, guys. Not to mention I haven't done anything wrong. You know, they made up a policy and said that I broke this policy that doesn't exist.

And I'm like, you can't just make up policies whenever you want, you know, anything, anything, so they can get me in trouble. And so then my punishment was ridiculous stuff like, you can't go into a room by yourself.

You have to constantly have a sitter with you for fear that you're going to share your opinions. You know, by then, I had posted something on social media about the COVID stuff that was happening, and I think I posted something about a measles vaccine.

And so somebody had shared that with my boss, and she's like, we need to be sure that all your babies are getting the vaccines they're supposed to get. And I'm like, has there been a complaint?

Do my babies get less vaccines than other babies in the hospital? No. I do what mom wants. I'm not here to talk anybody out of anything they want. I do what mom wants.

I don't share my opinions. It's not. It's not my job to share my opinions, but whatever. I fear the law of informed consent.

I just want to, like, you know, I'm there with you.

I'm.

I'm cheering you on.

I'm so there.

That's all I do. I tell moms, you have the right to say no to anything. You know, and I teach my moms that. And I'd write brain on their board.

Like, I want you to make sure that you have informed consent and you're making decisions that you want here, and you're not being tricked into things or you're not understanding what's happening.

Because I don't want anyone to leave my care traumatized because they didn't know what was happening. And so that's how I start my. You know, that's how I start my inductions or whatever's happening.

Whoever comes in the door, by the way, let's talk about informed consent.

You can say, so you mentioned brain for the listeners. So that's benefits, risks, alternatives, intuition, and doing nothing. So anytime you're given any.

Any decision out there, take a pause, go down through the brain acronym.

Well, and I say with intuition, kick everyone out of your room and give yourself Five minutes to think about it. Even if you're pretty sure you know, I'm probably going to say yes, or even if you know you're going to say yes.

Create that habit of creating distance because we don't make decisions, high stakes decisions, with someone breathing down our necks.

Right.

Anxiety doesn't allow us to hear our intuition. And so really clear that room out. Hey, I need five minutes to pray. And I tell people to say prayer too, because I'm like, prayer.

They listen. You know, we really try and be spiritually understanding in the hospital and culturally understanding. So if you say I have to pray about this, they're going to walk out and give me five minutes.

Yep, totally true.

And so, yeah, so I'm back at work, I'm crying every day, and I'm pregnant with Eldon. And, you know, free birth. Free birth had never been on the table for me because I had at my first hospital when I'd been a nurse for like a year, we had a free birth patient come in.

And so my very first only experience with free birth was a mother who had been bleeding in her tub for hours, who really came in because she felt like she was dying.

And so she had pushed things really, really far. And when she came in, her baby was almost dead. And it was like a traumatic C section. The whole thing was just traumatic.

Plus, then I wasn't her nurse. So hearing the story from another point of view with the nurse, you know, you can imagine as a nurse hearing about the free birth and the mom who didn't take, like, who cared more about her free birth than her baby and the horrible things that were said about that family.

That's all I knew about free birth. But I had learned about free birth from Wapio and I was pregnant with my third. And again, I'm like, I'm kind of.

So you had done the Wapio training then between your second and third?

Oh, yeah. So I did the WAPIO training in 2019, and for the new year, I was like, you know what? I'm going to shine my light. No more dimming myself out, no more, like, giving up.

You know, I'd say things to my coworkers like, oh, yeah, Eloise has never been to the doctor. You know, you can draw the conclusions from there. I'm not going to say anything else, but, you know, like, I'd say things without saying things, kind of like tiptoeing around the way I felt about things.

I'm like, I'm done with that. I'm going to own who I Am I'm going to shine my light. You know, I had this like, whole thing on the new year that I was like, I'm no longer going to be under a basket.

And I go back to work. We had done a traveling vacation. I come back to work and I was sent on leave like 45 days later. I'm like, they couldn't even stand the real me for 45, 45 days.

And I had been working at this hospital system for six years.

Wow.

You know, and I will again. I'm not saying anything to patients. I'm not doing anything crazy. I'm just, you know, I don't. I don't think we should break her back of waters because she is not ready for bag of water to be broken.

She's not in labor and she's going to end up with an infection. And I just started calling that out. Like, we had. That hospital had the highest infection rate of anywhere in the Bay Area.

And I'm like, first off, mothers should know that.

Yeah.

Second, until we find out why everyone's getting a horrible infection here, we should not be breaking anyone's waters because that's how we can protect mothers and babies. But it's like, oh, we'll just give me antibiotics and it's fine.

I'm like, but it's not that, you know, we don't know the long term complications of that. And yeah. So that lasted 45, 45 days. It was just wild to me because.

So the reason I ended up getting fired, like, side note is I had a mother who didn't want her cervix checked. And she's up in the showers and she's had her first baby.

She was in labor for like four hours and pushed for like 10 minutes. So very fast for its baby. Right? And so I'm like, okay, we're gonna have a baby here, like, really fast.

And she's up in the shower and she calls out and she's like, the baby's coming and she's bearing down. And so I rush her to the bed and I call the midwife and I'm like, birth team, come on in.

We're having a baby. And they're like, did you check her cervix? I'm like, well, no, I didn't check her cervix one, because she asked me not to check her cervix when I first started my care with her two, because she's having a baby.

And they fired me for not checking her cervix. She was only like 7 cm. Wasn't quite time for a baby. That's. That was a horrible. It was a very traumatic birth for me.

And I'm pregnant with my third. And, like, this is horrible. And so, yeah, I lost my job because I didn't check her cervix when I, first off, called the team in because I thought a baby was coming.

Second of off, I was asked not to touch, not to check her cervix by the patient.

Yeah, like, such a dramatic end to my career. I'm like, but it was anything. It was like there was a witch hunt, you know, and everyone, like, my coworkers would whisper to me.

They'd be like, can't you just, like, be quiet for, like, 40. It's just 90 days, you know, my action plan was 90 days. Just stay quiet for 90 days. I'm like, first off, I don't feel like I'm being that loud.

Second, no, I'm not going to pretend for 90 days. You know what I mean? I'm not going to not give informed consent for 90 days. Like, what exactly are you asking me to do?

Because I've not done anything wrong, and I'm not gonna pretend like I've done something wrong, you know?

They had to get rid of you. They absolutely had to get rid of you.

There was that, like, that line in the sand, like, oh, oh, shit. She's on Team patient always. Because, like, when that birth, when that dad caught the baby and I came to the desk, the midwife is crying and they're, like, riding up.

Everyone's freaking out. And I'm like, does my opinion matter? Because I was the nurse. I was the primary nurse. Do I get to say what happens in this report? Because the midwife was claiming that she had been assaulted.

So the dad is, like, so sweet. He's doing perinatal support. I wish I had a washcloth. He has a washcloth like this, like, one. One hand here and one hand here.

And he's, like, very cautiously doing perineal support with a warm washcloth. And so when the midwife came in, she wanted to check her cervix.

And the.

The dad was like, no. He just swung his hand like, no. And just guarded the perineum. Right. Like, you don't have permission to touch her vagina right now. And she's like, he assaulted me.

And I'm like, first off, that's not an assault. And second, you went to go touch her vagina without consent. That's sexual assault. Sexual assault. And that it was. And I, you know, you say the word sexual assault in the hospital and people freak out.

And so there was the line. I had. I had crossed line. Like, well, there's the line. Sexual assault happens to be the line, in case you're wondering.

But what she did was wrong. She didn't actually wrong ask permission. She put on a glove and she went to touch someone in intimate place.

That's not okay. We don't do that.

Yeah. And so I forget where I'm at with my story.

I kind of thought too, but.

But you.

So you got. You basically were sent on leave, you were pregnant, and you free birth. You. The only free birth experience you had had was that traumatic experience.

Yeah. And so it's really cool, though. Like, this whole story is cool because we would never have found home, north Idaho, without this happening. So, you know, I get put on leave at work, and we live in an rv.

We've lived in an RV for three years. And I'm like, well, I'm not going to stay in Northern California. Covid just hit and people are losing their minds. Do you know what I mean?

Like, I'm being called mean, horrible things in the store because I won't wear a mask. And I'm like, well, I'm not allowed to be at work, and I'm being paid not to be at work, and I live in an rv.

Let's go check out all the free states and see what it's like where people aren't freaking out. And so we went on what I call the Freedom tour, and we went to all the states.

It didn't have mask mandates. I'm like, I'm not. I'm not going to normalize masks for my family, you know? And so we go to North Dakota, and we go to South Dakota, and we go to Montana.

We go to all these places where, like, life is still happening and people are still kind, you know? And we end up in north Idaho, parked in my friend's driveway.

And I go into the grocery store and there's raw milk in the grocery store. And I'm like, what? Raw milk in the grocery store? Where am I? And then I'm at breakfast and I'm chatting with my husband about something.

And this person joins our conversation, and she's a nurse, too. And I have the first ever conversation about vaccines with another nurse about. Not like, about against vaccines. And I'm like, are we home?

Like, maybe we're home. Like, this is. This is crazy. I kind of love it here. And so we started looking at properties and, you know, this is what I'm still at leave at work, so I'm not been welcomed back yet.

This is where I'm being paid not to be there. And I am not pregnant with Eldon yet. And so I start looking at properties. I'm like, well, let's just like knock on some doors and see what happens.

And we look at a couple properties and they're not the right one. And the house that we're in now, I see it and it's pending. And I called the real estate agent.

I'm like, hey, can we come see this house? And he goes, it's pending. It's a done deal. It's not going to happen. I'm not going to show it to you.

I'm like, okay. And then I get called back to work, and I go back to work, but I can't get this property off my mind. So I call again. Done deal, not going to happen.

Okay, call again. Done deal, not going to happen. Okay, call one more time. He goes, the deal just dropped today. I'm putting it back on the market tomorrow. I'm like, I want to put an offer on it.

I've not seen it. I've not been to the area or anything. He goes, you have to. You have to see it in order to buy it. They won't take an offer unless you've been here.

I'm like, okay, I had vacation. So you had to, like. I don't know if your nurse was. If your nursing was the same way, but you had to plan your vacation a year in advance.

Oh, not quite a year, but yeah.

I'd never worked at a hospital like that that you had to plan all your vacation for the year in, like, March of the previous year. And so I happened to. I wanted to go to Disneyland.

I happened to plan for having two weeks off and it started the next day. I'm like, okay, we'll be there in two days. Like, Ryan picked me up from work.

We live in RV to take our house. Let's go see this property. And it all worked out just perfectly, like I was losing my job.

You know, we had our offering and everything. And so, like, I lost my job right as the loan closed, and it all just kind of came together in, like, this.

I don't know, I couldn't have planned it myself, you know, like, too many things happened for it to be possible for me to plan it. But then. So then I'm like, pregnant with Eldon and I'm, you know, I've been sent on leave again from work.

When we came back from looking at the house, I came back and they told me I was on leave again. And I'm like going through my mind. I called in sick one day, so I'm like, did I call in sick?

But I, you know, I had a pregnancy leave and like all this anxiety of, like, why, why am I on leave again? Like, I've been on my very best behavior.

I'm double triple checking my charting, you know, like, I've not done anything wrong. And I really. And so when they, like, finally, I'm like, they brought me into a discovery meeting, which is what they call when, like, you're in trouble and they have all these people watching you.

Oh, they're asking me all these questions, like, when do you check someone's cervix? And I'm like, well, at this hospital, basically never. The residents always do it. Well, in what situation would you.

And they're asking me all these questions, but they won't tell me why, you know, And I'm like, looking at the union, I'm like, I don't know why I'm here. This doesn't seem fair.

Like, what have I done? And they're just like trying to, like, try to catch me in something without telling me. I don't know. So finally the union's like, oh, yeah, we have to tell her why she's here.

Well, you didn't check that. You put that mother in danger and she could have hemorrhaged and died and so that's why you're here. So I got put on leave again, so pregnant.

And I had seen the OB at that hospital because, well, I needed to, like, proof of pregnancy for medical leave and everything and.

But I didn't know what I was going to do. You know, there was a home birth midwife I really liked in that area, but now I've just put an offer on a house in Plummer, Idaho, in the middle of nowhere.

And I'm like, I think what needs to do with free birth? You know, I really, I don't feel like I need anybody, you know, and if we're in Idaho, I don't know anybody.

I don't even know how to find a midwife. And so we decided, like, yeah, let's do it. And so me and my husband talked about it. He was on board too.

Like, not even a fight. And that was another thing that happened. It's kind of cool, like the way things happen and the way, how do I even explain that? The way the lessons of my life have led me to where I'm at.

And so, like, with Everett, Ryan was a hypochondriac. He would run to the hospital, to the doctor, my husband, any chance he got. You know what I mean? Like, he was convinced he was dying all the time.

A lot of anxiety. And then with my son, he goes, they have no idea what they're talking about, do they? And I'm like, ha, ha. Welcome. You know? And then with my daughter, I, I.

I delivered her. And he gets there, and the drive there was. He has anxiety. And so imagine, like, your wife is delivering in the car. And, like, you know, he goes, I don't even think that you needed them.

I'm like. And that was like, what he said. And so when I said, hey, I don't want to have anybody at the birth, he'd already been set up for it.

You know, he'd already lost trust in the medical system. He already saw me deliver a baby of my own. And so, because I caught. I pulled both my babies out.

I pulled all my babies out. And so he's like, okay, let's do it. And it was such a cool experience, you know, having that, especially the second half of my pregnancy, not being at work, not having to go to doctor's appointments, not having the stress.

You know, they always are telling me my babies are small. So, like, both Everett and otherwise, they're wanting to do ultrasounds at the end, and they're claiming my babies are tiny.

And I'm like, my baby feels perfect, and I'm really tall. I have a very long stomach. You know, I can hide a baby, and I always do. They're seven and a half, almost eight pounds.

And so just the peace I felt with that pregnancy of not having anyone else's external bullshit, for lack of a better word, coming into my field. No, not. They're no one else's fear.

Oh, you're past your due date. Oh, your baby is small. Oh, I think your fluid is low. All these things, guesses, you know?

And so then I'm trying to think. His labor was super fast, and I hired a birth photographer for that. Cause I did want pictures of. You know, I'm like, this is gonna be a cool experience.

I want to have pictures.

And I remember texting her and being like, they're just. My labor was so weird with him because it was like my contractions were so spaced out and so short, but so intense.

Like, it was obvious I was in active labor, but it'd be, like seven minutes, and the contraction would last, like, 15 seconds. You know, and I remember having the photographer here and having a moment of like I just wanted everyone gone.

I felt like I was like my contractions were so short, I felt like I had to like make them seem longer so she would believe I was in labor almost, you know, which is a crazy thought, right?

But like I'm in, like I'm. I don't know. That's, that was my thought process. And so I didn't realize like how watched I felt in a situation where I wasn't being watched.

You know what I mean? Like, I never felt that in the hospital because you're so observed. You can't even have a second to feel anything else but just a million eyes on you.

But when you're in the silence of your own house, it's like, oh, I do feel watched by this. And so with my fourth, I didn't have a birth photographer or anybody here because I didn't want to feel watched.

And that birth was really cool. And it was cool because me and my husband delivered him together and I was in the bathtub here. My, like I had like this sanctuary.

It's like a holy space now.

And feeling that baby make the cardinal movements of birth where they come down and they turn and they find their path out because the pelvis is an obstacle course. Like it's not easy getting out.

You have to stay, you have to extend, you have to turn, you know what I mean? And like feeling those movements and feeling restitution in my hand, I felt like my hands had eyes.

And it was so cool to feel like, to see that with my hands, you know, and to find, feel him finding his way on his own with no one pulling and tugging and touching and telling me what to do.

And it was a really cool experience for my husband too. He like would tell anybody, like he'd go get to the coffee shop and get a coffee. You will not believe what we just did.

We just had our baby in the bathtubs by ourselves, you know, like he was so jazzed about it, like just the pride he felt of like we just accomplished something so powerful together.

Like, you know, I always say like we did the impossible together. I mean obviously it's not impossible, but it felt like a very, very big deal. A very, very special moment.

It is.

Uh huh. And what's how birth should always be, but it's missed in the hospital, you know, even that like feeling like you talk to someone who's a home birth doula or home birth midwife, you're like, what do you feel when the baby's coming, you know, this actually be a cool podcast question you ask them, and they're like, ooh.

You know, like, the sounds change, or I smell something in the air, or sometimes I see tracers on my hands, and, like, I can tell that, you know, the veil is open and a baby's coming.

In the hospital, what do nurses feel? Nothing. There's just so much anxiety in the hospital that it totally clouds those beautiful, like, soft moments as a baby slowly making their way into the world.

But, yeah, it was just a really cool experience. And then just to be able to come to bed, you know, like, you're saying, like, interviewing dads. I talked to my friend's husband.

I'm like, what do you love about home birth? He goes, I don't have to sleep on a crappy couch. I don't have to find childcare for my kids. Like, all practical things, right?

He's like, this very practical guy. He has. It's so much easier for me. And I'm like, see, dads need to hear that, though. They need to hear the practical side.

It's more comfortable. You don't have to worry about childcare. You have good food. You know, it's all. It's all right there.

So how long was this labor then?

That one was, like, not long. Four hours. Really fast.

Yeah. Did you ever, like, go off into that liminal space, or were you pretty present? Because they were so spaced out.

No. So, yeah, that one. I definitely felt the quietude. That's what Wapio calls it. So that space between, like, right after transition, before you have a baby. And I remember, like, all of a sudden, it's just, like, peace, right?

And I'd sink into the water, and I just see, like, this purple tube in front of me, and I just, like, rest, you know? It was like this really beautiful sacred moment.

And that was another thing I wish I had explained better to my husband is like, if I go to sleep, it doesn't mean the labor stopped. You know what I mean?

And I didn't Clari, like, so like, a couple minutes into it, he's like, is labor stopped? You know, he pulled me out of it, not knowing that it was, like, this sacred time because he didn't know.

And so that's another thing I'm passionate about teaching dads. Like, what is labor really? Like, yeah, what can you expect? When are the jokes no longer appropriate? You know, because especially in the hospital, dads are making jokes, and I'm like, we pass.

We're past the joke. Point guy, like, you just gotta hold space and just sit here and be a little uncomfortable and watch your. Watch your woman do this hard work.

But it was really cool to feel that, like, complete peace, you know? It was like all the tension was gone, and I just, like, melted into the water. And I knew, like, okay, I'm about to meet this baby.

And we didn't know if he was a boy or a girl.

And then. And my son was there, too. So my son was there for that birth. And then my daughter slept, and it was really cute because when they woke her up, she, like, ran out to the kitchen, and she comes back in, and she's like, three years old.

She brings me a piece of chocolate and she, like, shoves it in my mouth. And it was the best thing I had ever tasted in my life. Like, it was exactly what I needed.

I don't even know what chocolate it was. You know what I mean? It didn't matter. But, like, she had, like, planned that and she had thought about that. Like, that was like her.

Like, this is what my mom needs right now, you know, from that very, very innocent place.

And so what was it like then? Having a physiological third stage or placenta birth for the first time?

Yeah, right.

Patience. You know, it took a long time. It took almost an hour for the placenta to be born. And I was very worried. So, like, I feel like that birth was kind of hard because I was midwifing myself.

You know, I actually think it was my most painful birth of all of my births. I don't know. We'll talk about number four, because that one was pretty uncomfortable, too.

But I was checking my own cervix. I was trying to figure out where I was in my labor. I had just taken Wapio's cohort program, so I had that midwifery education under my belt.

And I'm like, oh, I'll just midwife myself. You can't midwife yourself when you're in labor. You really just have to surrender. And so it was like, the moment where I was like, none of it matters, and I just, like, released is when things really started taking off and going and being less uncomfortable, you know, like, more.

More endorphins were present because I wasn't, like, in my beta brain trying to figure out where I was.

Right.

And, yeah, so it took, like, an hour for the placenta to be born. And, like. And I'm kind of waiting because I'm like, okay, I know it's going to take three contractions for the placenta.

Be born. I know the physiology of birth, of placenta birth. And, you know, 30 minutes in contractions.

Wait a minute. I haven't heard this before. What do you mean?

Oh, yeah. Oh, I wish I had. Let me think. If I have my notebook. So the math of the placenta, it's like. There's math, and it's very physiologic, and so it's like, whatever, however far apart your contractions were.

So say your contractions were 10 minutes apart. It's going to be 30 minutes, 20 to 30 minutes before you have your first contraction. So it's going to be two to three times what the space of your contractions were before the birth.

And then the first contraction starts the detachment. The second contraction finishes detachment, and the third contraction pushes it into the yoni.

And it's like.

I know, it's really interesting, and it, like, I found it to be true. And so I'm like, just waiting for that first contraction, though, and there's none. It's just stillness, you know?

And I'm kind of, like, tugging on the cord. I'm like, well, it's been, like, 30 minutes, like, but I'm not bleeding, and I feel good, and I think that. That.

And I just learned to trust my placenta. You know what I mean? And that's what we're supposed to do. We're always rushing the placenta. We're always big hurry. I'm like, if mom feels good and.

And there is no bleeding, there is no emergency. And when we get in there and we start giving drugs and we start tugging and we start pushing, we create emergencies.

We do. You know? Yes, my last. One of my last patients in the hospital, they left her placenta inside. And I shared this story on social media recently, and someone like, yeah, I'm.

Glad you brought it up, because I was like, whoa, whoa. Like, it gets reabsorbed. It doesn't automatically cause an infection. Like, I was just thinking. I was still thinking with my nurse brain, like, oh, if you have retained placenta, you're gonna get an infection.

That's not true. They gave her antibiotics. Like, you're still gonna watch for an infection. Like, that is a risk. Right?

But I would personally prefer antibiotics and watching for infection versus losing my uterus, which is what would happen to this mother, you know, it was an accreta. So an accreta is where the placenta has gone through the uterus and attached itself outside sometimes to, like, the bladder or to a major artery.

And women lose their fertility. They lose their uterus because of it, you know? And so if I had the choice, which I think we should all have the choice of, like, would you rather risk an infection and hope that this placenta reabsorbs, or would you rather lose your uterus?

Most moms are gonna say, give me some antibiotics and leave it in. You know, we should have that right to do that. And that's what they did with his mother.

You know, they went in, it was a C section. They tried to peel it away, and it was, like, really adhered. And they stitched her back up and gave her those antibiotics.

And so then I went home and researched. Cause I'm like, what is this? Like, I had never heard it in my career, you know? And 89 days. It takes the body 89 days to absorb a placenta.

Wow.

That cool.

So I'm like, amazing.

I think it just should give us, like, should we be leaving? Placenta's in at home? Probably not. Like, if you're placenta's in, go to the hospital, make sure you don't have an infection.

Right. But I think it should create peace around placenta birth. Yeah. If mom's not bleeding, if mom has her wits about her and she's having a conversation, patience is needed.

And, you know, the placenta is the advocate for the baby. And so with Eldon, he took a little bit to transition. He was a little bit like, you know, whoa, that was kind of fast.

And so the placenta hung on a little bit longer, like, okay, are you. Are you okay, buddy? I want to make sure that you're fine before I sign off. And we actually.

We burnt the chord with him. And it was the coolest experience because, first off, it takes forever, you know, like, 15 minutes. It takes forever, which I didn't anticipate. But, like, right as it released, Eldon let out this, like, huge sigh, like, and it was like, this audible.

It was just such a cool moment. I love the book the Placenta, the Forgotten Chakra. And I read that in my pregnancy with him and just, like, bald and, like, really, the placenta is really special.

And the way it acts for baby and the way it constantly, you know, makes sure the baby's okay, you know, I don't know. It's really cool.

No, I am with you on that 100%. I recently just made a post about the placenta as well. I feel very strongly about the placenta. And so many women don't plan for their placenta birth.

You know, they don't even think about the placenta. I think it's Well, I mean, you know, again, as nurses, like, it's one of the most important parts of the birth.

Yeah.

It's like, get it out as quickly as possible. That's all. And that's why I've. I've asked. I asked Wapio this, and she goes, I don't know. I'm like, do you think that we're seeing more sticky placentas?

Because the placenta is tired of being thrown in the waste bin, you know, it's tired of being an afterthought. And so it's like, well, if I get sticky, they'll start paying attention to me, you know, like, really, it's disrespectful the way we treat the placenta and the way we treat that initial postpartum period where really we should be hands off, and we should take three steps back as these two get to know each other and as this family grows, and we should just marvel in just the wonder of the beauty of it.

And instead, you have strangers touching you and touching your baby and just chaos all around the room. You know, that's. I mean, hospital birth, it's anxiety and chaos.

So much going on all the time.

Yes.

The exact opposite conditions we need for physiology to unfold.

Yeah.

So you eventually then birthed it an.

Hour later, and it was fine. Yeah. And it was. Yeah. Three contractions and it was out. It was really cool.

And planted part of it with a tree. We planted an orchard when my son was, like, 11 days old. And so the first tree has a bit of his placenta with it to start the orchard off.

And I don't know, it's just so cool telling him, too, like, hey, you were born here. You know, you're an Ellis Lane original. I tell him, like, you're an OG of the farm.

And then with her, she snuck in. Like, I thought that I modeled another baby. I had never accidentally got pregnant. You know, Like, I've always been aware that I'm trying to get pregnant or I'm getting pregnant.

And when she first showed up, I was, like, kind of in shock about it, and I felt a little bit. How do I even. What's the word?

I don't even know what the word is. She wasn't welcome and she wasn't expected, and at that moment, she wasn't wanted. And I really was, like, it didn't feel. It didn't feel right.

You know what I mean? I felt like my body had been taken from me and I didn't have a say in it. And that pregnancy Ended in a miscarriage. And I think it was her coming back every time.

You know, it happened twice. I think she knew how hard life was going to be because we've had a really hard season here. And so she's like, I need you to be 100% on.

You know, the first time, like, oh, I don't think I want to be pregnant. I don't. I don't know if I want another. And then I lost it. And I was like, oh, maybe I did, because now I feel sad.

And the second time, I felt really sad. And the third time, she decided, okay, she's ready for me now. You know, I can stick because she's ready. Cause it's going to be.

It's going to be a hard postpartum. And so I need her 100% on.

And I'm still figuring out the lesson that she. I think that she just doesn't. She's like, there's no B.S. you know what I mean? Your words have to match your actions.

And I'm not going to stand for BS because that's kind of the lesson I've learned in this pregnancy and why I've left my husband because he has a lot of great things to say and not a lot of action to back the words.

And I just got tired of being lied to, you know, And I feel like some people are like, oh, that seems like a really shallow reason to separate from your partner.

And like. Like, oh, he's not addicted to porn, and he's not, you know, not doing drugs. He's not cheated on you. It's like they have all these horrible things that men have done.

And I'm like, no, but it matters, you know, it really doesn't matter. And the trust is lost. Micro little micro lie at a time, the trust is lost. And it's just not a healthy way to be.

And I don't want to be so close to somebody that's not healthy, you know? And so we're separate. He still lives on the property, and we're. I don't know. I don't know what it is.

It's. It's been a mess. It's been hard. But for her, for her birth, we were fighting so much. I'm like, you can't come to the birth. I can't have this tension in my space.

I don't want a hemorrhage. I really do believe that we can have emotional hemorrhages. You know, we can have emotional emergencies at birth where things happen because, you know, we're Trying to call our partner back in.

And, you know, he's not. He's been ignoring us, and he's not nurtured us the entire pregnancy. And so then we end up with a hemorrhage because he needs an emergency to show up.

I'm like, I'm not doing. I'm not doing that. And around, like, towards the end of my pregnancy, like, nine months, I was at the store, and I was seeing sparkles.

And I thought it was an ocular migraine. Like, what a horrible labor and delivery nurse. Okay, I'm nine months pregnant. I'm, like, seeing spots, and I'm like, oh, ocular migraine.

That sucks. I have a headache, and, like, I just need to go relax. And so I do. And then two days later, I'm making dinner, and I'm like, seeing stars again, right?

And I have a horrible headache, and I'm like, oh, I'm pregnant.

I need to check my blood pressure. This is probably preeclampsia. And I check my blood pressure, and it's like, high 1 60s over 90 something. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm like, well, that sucks.

And I've. And actually, my feet had been swollen, and I'd kind of been ignoring it. Like, all these signs had been there, and I just, you know, kind of ignored it.

And the next day, I checked my blood. Next day, my feet is. My feet are worse, and my headache is worse. My feet are like two plus pitting edema. I wish I had taken a picture because, like, it was bad.

And check my blood pressure. And at its highest, it was like 2:03 over 110 or something. Oh, my God. Yeah, like, that bad. But I knew that it was emotional.

You know, my brain knew. How do I explain this? My brain knew that Ryan couldn't support me in this time. You know what I mean? Like, I could. Logically, I could talk to you about it.

I could say, you know what? He's. He's not being the best support. He's in a negative space, and he can't support me. But I don't think my heart believed it.

And it's so sad, I could cry when I say it. And so, you know, I text him like, I have preeclamptic symptoms. And, like, you know, he used to be a hypochondriac.

He knows blood pressures. I tell him my blood pressure, and his response is like, go take a bath and relax. And I'm like, that's really sad. You know what I mean?

That's really sad. But Honestly, I need to nurture myself, and I've been pushing myself too much, and I'm doing too much. And so I spent three days, like, really nurturing myself, you know, keeping the lights dim, taking Epstein baths every day, and hyper focusing on protein and making sure that I'm, like, drinking a lot.

I just wasn't taking care of myself. I wasn't nurturing myself. And I had my numbers turned around in three days, and then my blood pressure would only spike when I had to talk to him, like, I would check my blood pressure after.

I'm like, my heart is telling me something here. You know what I mean? It was completely emotional, but, like, a conversation that needs to be had. Like, in the medical model, they would have induced me.

You know what I mean? I would have thought magnesium for sure. First off, I should have known. The first time I saw stars, which I just. I laugh at myself now.

I'm like. It's the first question I ask a mother when they call, are you seeing stars? You see spots before your eyes. And I, like, miss the symptoms on myself.

But we can't turn it around.

It's a disease of nurturing. It's a disease whether it's nutritional nurturing, physical nurturing, emotional nurturing. The body's not getting what it needs to sustain the pregnancy. And so the placenta, it increases the blood pressure so the baby can get enough of what it needs.

And so we. We. We can turn it around. We could turn it around really quickly. And like I said, I wish I had pictures of my feet because, like, I was bad.

You know, I was sick and that. But then the rest of pregnancy was fine. I would check my blood pressure in the morning. I'd check it at night, and it was always, like, either normal.

My normal is really low. Or it was, like, slightly elevated. I'm like, you know, 122 over 82 or something. I'm like, I'm fine to stay home.

And then, you know, I feel like I was pregnant. Same thing. So all my. My first baby was born on his due date, which shocked me because I'm late to everything.

I'm like, how are you? On. That's crazy. And the rest of my babies have been late. And so she was like, 41 and 3 or 4.

And I woke up to, like, a pop. And so I've never had my bag of waters break except for, like, right before the baby's born. And I'm laying in bed and I feel a pop, and I'm like, that's weird.

But no, Water. And I'm like, was that my bag of water? Is like, I don't know. And so I get up, and I go by my day, and I still don't see any water.

And then, like, afternoon, I start. I start leaking a little bit of fluid. I'm like, okay. So it was my bag of waters. And then I'm kind of having, like, these, like, intermittent contractions, you know, and they're like, they're fine.

I could talk through em, but, like, okay, so today's probably, you know, sometime in the next day or two, I'm gonna have a baby.

And I'm up in the kitchen, and I'm making dinner for the family. I'm putting a roast in the oven. It's afternoon, and, you know, I'm like, stopping. So I. I give my daughter, who's seven, I give her the celery to cut up.

Cause it's getting kind of hard to cut things up. And I have everyone doing their jobs, and I'm breathing through contractions. And my son, who's 11, ever goes, should I start the bath for you, mom?

You know, and we've. We've done a lot of preparation. You know, we've read a ton of labor books together, all three of us. I've had them watch labor videos. You know, if you're gonna have your kid at a birthday, you need to make sure they're prepared.

And so you have them watch really quiet videos, and then you have them watch. I would, like, search YouTube for, like, the loudest video I could find. Like, I want you guys to be prepared for how loud birth can be and how quiet it can be.

And we'd have all these conversations about, if I ask you to step back, you don't ask me questions. Like, I'm doing hard work, and I want you guys to be there, but I'm gonna need some space sometimes.

And I'm not mad at you until, like, we talked through every scenario. So I'm having contractions, and everyone goes, I think I need to start a bath for you. I'm like, no, I think I'm okay.

He goes, I'm gonna start the bath. And so he goes, and he starts the bath for me, and I get the stew into the oven, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I need to get into the bath.

And so, like, that labor, this labor was like, an hour. Like, an hour back from getting the bath to a baby was one hour. And, you know, and, like, for the first 15 minutes of the bath, I was still, like, with it enough to text people.

You know, I had a friend that was gonna come support us. And so I text her. I'm like, okay, head over in, like, two hours. And then the next contraction hits and go, make it an hour.

And the next contraction hits. I'm like, you should probably come right now. Like, it was very clear that, like, the text message stream is hilarious, though, because it's just like, okay, we have time.

Things are. You know, I'm okay. Oh, I'm not. And she lived an hour away, so she missed the birth anyways.

And then my kids were just so perfect because they were like my little doulas. Like, they would filter in, and they'd kind of check on me, and they'd watch from the doorway, and I'd be like, hey, can you get me some ice?

And I'd go. And they'd get me a cup of ice. Or, like, so each kid would bring something different, you know? And then at one point, I'm like, okay, she's not.

This baby's on her way. Like, you know, you. You have enough babies. You know, you can feel the change. You can feel when the baby's starting to come down. And I'm like.

I tell my daughter, I'm like, if you want to see her, because she really. She missed Eldon being born, and she's still a little bit mad about it. She's like, I'm gonna see this baby be born.

I'm like, okay, like, if you want to see your baby be born, you probably shouldn't leave. She's. This baby's coming soon. I thought she was a girl, and I'm pretty sure I said she.

And it was so weird to learn. Actually, that's probably the lesson I learned from this pregnancy, is how capable I am. I was able to be 100% present in having this baby and 100% present with my children.

And I have the birth on video. And it's so interesting to me because I'm, like, in the throes of a contraction, and the contraction passes, and I look over, I'm like, have you all had snacks?

You guys probably should have a snack, you know, like, get a cheese stick. We get Elden a cheese stick. And then I go right back into my birth. You know what I mean?

I would just, like, pop in, handle things, pop back into the work I had to do.

And she is actually my biggest baby. She was nine pounds. I should know how big she was. Nine. Four, I think, which is a big baby for me. And she got stuck a little bit, and so, you know, her head is out and I'm waiting for her to turn and she's not turning.

And I give a little push and she's not moving. And, you know, I'm trying to wait for the next contraction, but I'm like, it felt, it felt stuck to me.

She felt stuck. And my 3 year old comes up and I have on video, he goes, you can't push your baby out, mama. Like, he knew the baby was stuck.

I think that's so cool to like those little souls that are still so connected. Like, he didn't even know that babies could get stuck, you know what I mean? Like, but he knew.

And so I actually had to help her a little bit. So I ended up in my hands and knees trying to push her out. And it's a short shoulder dystocia, but it still was.

And I had to go in and release her posterior shoulder and then she came flying out.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So I'm like, she was a big baby for a big baby for me. But I just think that it was so cool. First off, I knew exactly what to do, you know what I mean?

And not because I was a nurse, not because I've done it before, not because I haven't been with her education. I just knew, like, I knew that she was stuck.

And then I had my son confirm that she was stuck, which I just thought was really cool. And she came out and cried and was just absolutely perfect. And I talked, oh, she's so tiny.

I always say that. And then I look at the video, I'm like, she's not tiny. She's huge. She's nine pounds.

Big, big baby. And same thing, the placenta took like an hour. You know, really patient with the placenta and it just needed it. Just, I don't know, I don't think we actually know how long placentas take because we're so obsessed with pushing them out for faster.

And midwives, even home birth, midwives have lost patience for placentas, you know, and so I think that it'll take a couple of years of actually seeing what placentas want to do to really understand how long a placenta takes.

Yeah.

And even, you know, a lot of what I've learned, I've learned on the farm. You know, we have all these animals having babies. A cow placenta can take 24 hours.

And it's been very interesting how closely related birth is to homesteading and how much of what we do to the earth, we do to mothers. And to see that dynamic from A very, like, you know, firsthand, you know, we have turkeys who can't mother.

My turkeys can't raise a baby. And it's because they've been. They've been not allowed a mother for 30 years. They've lost the ability genetically, and we can do that. And Michelle Adon talks about that, like, how many generations before we lose the capability to go into labor on our own?

Yeah, it's not that Generations.

Oh, my gosh. Wow. I really hadn't thought of it in that perspective before. I think often about we're about three generations removed from birth, being at home, you know, but that was before we, like, knew how to wash our hands well, and antibiotics and all of this and that.

So that's, you know, we're in our modern times now. It's time to bring birth back to the home and, you know, the safe way that we know how to do it.

Well, there's women who think that, like, oh, yeah, I can't go into labor on my own, or, like, my family always has C sections. Like, we already have generations believing lies, and believe it and you say it and you think it.

It becomes true, you know, and so you have an entire family line that thinks that they can't have vaginal birth.

Right.

Of course they can. I'm sorry.

Right, yeah.

Wow, Jess, those are some wild stories. So you do.

I mean, not only do you have all of your 10 years of experience watching hospital births, you have these four amazing births, and then do you also attend births as a doula?

Yeah. Yeah. So I've been doing. And that has been so such a blessing to me to, like, attend births with my friends, you know, with people I know, with people in the community, and then they can watch those babies grow up, like, such a different experience.

Like, you know, it's not strangers, you know, And I get to see. I get to see relationships healed. I get to see babies grow. I get to share this wisdom with people who really matter to me.

And it's been so special. And that's just been this kind of organic thing that's happened where it's like, I get text messages now, like, what would you do about this?

I'm like, I love it. I love being able to be that, like, voice of reassurance. I have a friend, and she goes, you completely saved me in my pregnancy. And I'm like, first off, no, I didn't.

I don't play that game. She goes, no. Like, every time I called you or you called me, you would call me at these like, time I'd be freaking out and you would just call, like, you would just know and you would just bring reassurance back to me.

She's like, it just made my pregnancy so much better knowing that, like, you believed in me. Oh, like, of course I believe in you. You know, and that's what so many others just need.

It's just someone to believe in them and someone to say, well, what do you think? You know, that's all I did for her. Do you think your baby's small? No.

I'm like, then your baby's not small. Let's move on. She goes, thank you.

Yes, exactly. Simple reassurance. Taking women back to their intuition, self trust. That's where it's at.

And I feel like I learned a lot of that from Wapiya, which makes. It's just so cool to be working for her now and to be like, you know how magical.

You're, like, doing it. You're doing the dream.

It's funny because when I met her, I was like, you know, I met her for that first day, and my mind is blown. I'm like, I had never heard birth talked about in that way, ever, ever.

And that night I had, like, this, like, dream, like, you know, that in between dream state where, like, I don't know, in between sleep and awake, and like, there was, like, this clear voice.

It's like, you're here to help change birth and you're going to work with lapio. And so the next day, I go up to Wapio. I don't know this woman, right?

And I'm like, wapio, I'm gonna work with you. And she goes, oh, darling. And she pats my hand. I'm sure. I'm sure she hears it all the time, right? People just get like, enamored, are like, how do I work?

How do I do more? I'm like, no, Wapio, I'm gonna work with you. I don't know how. I don't. She's like, well, I don't take apprentices anymore. What do you think that looks like?

I'm like, I don't know what it looks like, but I know we're gonna work together. And so now I'm like, helping her co. I'm co hosting the cohort with her, and I get to be a teacher with her.

Like, it's just. It's just cool how it's all unfolded the way it was supposed to, and I was supposed to have every experience, you know what I mean? And I think that's one Thing is, even the traumatic birth, like Everett's birth was really hard.

It affected my motherhood and it was very traumatic, but I needed it to wake up a little bit more, you know what I mean? It led me here and I wouldn't have got here.

You know, he blessed me with that, even though it was. I don't want to learn lessons that, that way. I don't want to learn lessons the hard way. But sometimes we have to.

Yeah, yeah. And to have that embodied experience, you know, then to bring that wisdom and to serve women in that way, it's beautiful. Why don't you just take a quick moment here and just talk a little bit about, you know, the work that you do, offerings that are available for women that might be interested and where people can find you.

All right. Easiest way to find me and get a hold of me is Instagram. So I have my two accounts. Is Badass Birthkeeper is my birth account, which I'm not very active on, but it's coming.

I'm working on videos and stuff. And then my other account is Shine Wild Family Farm, and that's our homesteading life.

And so, yeah, you get a little bit of everything on that one. And then for offerings, I'm not offering my course Navigating a Holistic Hospital Birth. This year I'll be giving it to the students through the cohort, but I don't think I'll be doing it separately.

Really. That course is about talking families and out of hospital birthday.

It teaches you how to have a good birth in the hospital. Right. Because I know, like, if I, if I supported someone in the hospital now, I could make sure they were taken care of.

And I can teach you how to do that. But by the end of the program, you kind of ask yourself, but why, you know, is it worth it? Is it worth this much work?

Like, do I want to work this hard for my birth? Probably not, you know, and so that's kind of what that program is all about. Like, I'll teach you how to do it.

Let's. Let's go for it. Do you really want to do this much work? Yeah.

And then our cohort starts in February, so we have a year long birth keeper cohort through the Matrona. And it is. We call it a year devotional to birth. And so we dive deep into everything, you know, wisdom, keeping homeopathy, obviously, birth.

I love the hernatomy physiology portion because I did not love anatomy and physiology when I was a nurse. I didn't love the.

No, I just, it was so I mean, I thought it was interesting, but it's not interesting the way Wapio teaches it. Like, Wafio teaches you to love your body. You know, like, preeclampsia is the body's way of protecting you and the baby.

Not the. Not you, most of the baby, you know, and when you understand that, like, oh, my body's not against me, My body's actually. I have symptoms because my body is trying to find balance.

And you understand how much control we actually have over our bodies if we pay attention and we start getting more conscious. I just love the way she teaches about the human body.

And I left her program, like, oh, I love my body, you know, And I shifted myself from, like, you know, I can't eat. I had all these things. I can't eat carbs.

I can't do this. I can't do that. My body hates me. I'd say that all the time. My body hates me. My body hates carbs. And once I stop that conversation, I can eat anything I want besides gluten.

I still haven't mastered that one, but that's okay. And so that starts in February, and it's a year long, and so we're diving deep into birth, and we're going, you know, conception to postpartum, all the way down.

And it really is. I took the. So I was the first year. So, yeah, I took Wapia's program. I'm like, I want to work with you. I want more. And so I.

I called her. I was like, I want to take your program, but I can't do it by myself. I can't do self study. I won't finish. I'll never finish. I need accountability.

I need people. I'm like, can we make a cohort and, like, you know, have a bunch of people do it together? And that just, like, lit her program on fire.

And every year, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And so it becomes a sisterhood. You know, my friend Kate, who was. Who I met through the cohort, who was part of my study group, she just came into the closing bone ceremony for me and came and take me.

You know, those women have become part of my life. And you transform through the program because she does a lot on, like, woundology and wisdom keeping. And you can't help but see the world a little bit differently at the end of the year.

And then through that, the world sees you differently. And so I really feel like, you know, my vibration through that, through studying with her changed. And that's why things opened up the way they have for me.

And that's why I feel like the people who need my wisdom and the stuff I have to offer, they just kind of show up. I don't do a lot of advertising and the people find me.

So that's the thing I'm most excited for. I'll be teaching once a month and just giving both sides of it, you know, like, let's talk about, okay, preeclampsia. Let's talk about the wisdom keeping aspect of preeclampsia, and let's also talk about what the hospital has to offer.

And that way, you know, and so if it comes up, you can be a wealth of knowledge for the families you serve and you can really understand both sides of the coin.

And that way families can get exactly what they want, you know, because not all families are going to feel fine with blood pressure of 210 over 110 staying home. You know, I'm a special case and I know that.

Yeah.

Yes, you are very special. And I feel, again, very honored that you came on to share your stories here with me in this audience. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time here.

Yeah, it was great. And she did great, too. Good job.

Thanks for being with us.

Little one. Special. They're all special, right?

They all are.

You're right.

Thank you for listening through to the end. I do hope you found good medicine in today's episode and that it encourages your own soul evolution. I have a few new offers, both in person and virtual, that I'd like to tell you about.

Beginning in January, I will host a free in person perinatal women's circle for anyone trying to conceive, pregnant or postpartum, seeking community and support. There will be a focus on preparing for natural birth and healing from birth trauma.

Children are welcome. You can sign up via my website.

I also now offer a new monthly online virtual village circle for families seeking an empowering physiological conception, pregnancy, labor, birth and postpartum. It's just $10 a month or free when you purchase my online course.

So you want a home birth? You can gain access by signing up via my website.

As always, I host women's circles once a month at my home in Southern Maine. All women are welcome. For details, go to my website.

I have 20 years of experience in the medicalized system. I let my nursing license expire in 2023, and now I walk with women seeking a physiological, instinctual and deeply spiritual conception, pregnancy, labor, birth and postpartum journey.

I help prepare and repair for the most expansive rite of passage that women get to experience in this lifetime. It is my greatest honor and sole mission to hold sacred space and witness women as they claim their own inner authority and power.

I am a fierce advocate and guardian of natural birth using the culmination of my life's experiences including my own embodied wisdom when it comes to being a home birthing mother, nearly two decades of experience in our healthcare system and a year long sacred birth worker mentorship with Anna the Spiritual Midwich.

I support births with or without a licensed provider present at home birth centers and the hospital.

I offer birth debriefing and integration sessions for women, their families and birth workers.

I offer therapeutic one to one sessions, individually tailored mother blessings, closing of the bones and fear and trauma release ceremonies.

If any or all of this resonates, I offer a free 30 minute disc discovery call if you have a birth story to share or if you're a embodied wise woman, witch healer, medicine woman, I am also interested in sharing your contribution to our soul evolution.

You can book in via the link in the show notes.

Thank you so much for your love and support everyone. Until next time, take rest. Really good care.