46. [WISE WOMAN] WITH JANE HARDWICKE COLLINGS - PERIMENOPAUSE WITH YOUNG CHILDREN - THE WISDOM OF THE CYCLES, RITES OF PASSAGE & SHAMANIC MIDWIFERY

Today's guest has been on my dream guest list since the origin of my podcast. If you have been listening for any length of time you would have heard me quote or reference Jane Hardwicke Collings.

Jane is a Grandmother, a Keeper of Sacred Knowledge. She carries the lineage of Shamanic Midwifery from her teacher, Jeannine Parvati Baker.

I did not let the opportunity to speak with her about all things sacred pass me by.

We dive in to her school of Shamanic Womancraft, The Shamanic Dimensions of Pregnancy, The Wisdom of the Cycles, Women's Mysteries or Blood Mysteries, Women's Rite of Passage & the key question to ask ourselves: How does this serve my transformation?

We save extra time towards the end for Jane to share the map of Perimenopause & Menopause or "Sagescence" as Jane has coined it, giving practical tips for new Mothers over the age of 35 that will experience perimenopause with young children in tow.

This is a profound episode that all women need to hear so please share it!

If what Jane has to teach you today resonates, I hope you will take the opportunity to attend her Siren Call Tour in Mexico and Canada this Summer!

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Music The Ancients (feat. Loga Ramin Torkian) by Azam Ali

Disclaimer:

The information and resources provided by me are not intended to constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice or a Mother’s intuition. Instead, all information provided is intended for education purposes only. My advice is not to be seen as medical diagnosis or to treat any medical illness or condition of Mother or baby/fetus.

THE FOLLOWING TRANSCRIPT IS AI GENERATED SO ERRORS ARE PRESENT

EMILY: Welcome to Soul Evolution.

My name is Emily, also known as the Birth Advocate. I am a retired nurse, health coach, women's circle and ceremony facilitator and the host of this podcast. Here we dive deep to reclaim our rites of passage with a big dose of birth story medicine, intentionally curious conversations with embodied wisdom keepers, and a sprinkle of polarity as we will hold space for our men from time to time too.

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I walk you through, step by step, exactly how to prepare yourself, your partner and your home for the most incredible experience you get to have in this lifetime. Birth is a sacred rite of passage worthy of honoring.

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You will find photos and videos of my guests on my Instagram account, Earth Advocate. You can always email me at connectirthadvocate Me. I'd love to hear from you. Now let's drop in to today's episode.

Today's Guest has been on my dream guest list since the origins of my podcast, which is going to be turning one next month. By the way, if you have been listening to my show for any length of time, you would have heard me reference or quote Jane Hardwick Collins.

Jane is a grandmother and a keeper of sacred knowledge. She carries the lineage of shamanic midwifery from her teacher, Janine Bovarti Baker. I did not let the opportunity to speak with her on all things sacred pass me by.

We dive into her school of shamanic womancraft, the shamanic dimensions of pregnancy, the wisdom of the cycles, Women's mysteries or blood mysteries, Women's rites of passage.

The key question to ask ourselves, how does this serve my transformation?

We save extra time for Jane to share the map of perimenopause and menopause, or sage essence, as Jane has coined it. Giving practical tips for new mothers over the age of 35 that will be experiencing perimenopause with young children still in tow.

This is a profound episode. All women need to hear this. Please, please, please share it. If what Jane has to teach you today resonates, I hope you will take the opportunity to attend her Siren Call tour in Canada and Mexico this summer.

Stay tuned to the episode for details. Let's drop in.

Welcome, Jane, to the podcast.

JANE: Oh, my gosh.

EMILY: You've been on my, like, dream guest list from the beginning, and this podcast is only about a year old, so it's just. It is my greatest honor to have you on here.

You know, I am just so profoundly grateful for your work, and I truly aspire to follow this example that you're setting. And, you know, we don't have enough models out there, enough grandmothers, enough, you know, elders showing us, like, giving us a map.

And so you're doing that, and it just, it hits me right in the heart. And welcome.

JANE: Oh, thank you so much, Emily. And thank you for those honorable words. I'm deeply touched and I'm very grateful to be invited to be with you on your podcast.

EMILY: Yeah, in this podcast, I'm. I'm all about reclaiming our rights of passage. You know, I work in birth now, but I also interview wise women about all things along, you know, the woman journey that we have here.

And I host women's circles once a month where we tune in to our inner season, the outer season, the moon cycle. Your app, spinning Wheels. I make sure everyone downloads it.

Yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's pretty incredible. So there's so many things that we can talk about here today. I could pick your brain forever.

My hope is that we do, like, a general overview of the work that you have to offer. You know, what are the wisdom of the cycles? What are the women's mysteries?

But I really want to save some time here at the end to talk about this great issue, this great topic that is upon so many women, where women are entering perimenopause with young children, because I myself will be turning 40 in 2025 and all of most of my friends are also around that same age and we all have little children and yeah, it's just, you know, it's an important topic and we need to give it some, give it some light.

I'm going to give you a moment to sort of introduce yourself and tell us who is Jane Hardwick Collins.

JANE: Thank you, Emily. And yes, great and important subject. I look forward to having a conversation about that. Menopause for women with young children. So to introduce myself, I am a post menopausal grandma and I am working in the world to fulfill my mission, which is to help heal the wounded feminine and the wounded masculine of the patriarchal culture.

And what that actually looks like is and what the work is practically is reclaiming feminine knowledge, wisdom and power. Basically awakening everybody from the patriarchal slumber spell that we're under asleep to our power asleep.

To our bodies asleep. To our connection with the earth and each other. So my story, how I got to here because I'm 66 years old now and in the tail end of the autumn of my life, moving into the winter of my life, the crone season at 70.

And I'll talk a little bit about that more later, I'm sure. But I was a home birth midwife for 30 years and that was from 25 to 55 and that was major process for me, a huge thing to be involved in.

And I basically grew up in the home birth world. So that was a lovely world to grow up in. And I was teaching preparation for childbirth classes and menstrual cycle workshops.

And then I started the School of Shamanic woman craft in 2009, an international women's mystery school. And she's now like 14 years old and very, very grown up, so past her menarche and quite fertile and ovulating all the time.

And I've written books and made E courses and I've got lots of work available online and do lots of face to face stuff too.

EMILY: Beautiful, beautiful. And you're going to be having a tour in Mexico and Canada coming up in 2025.

JANE: That's right, yes.

EMILY: Yeah, we'll talk more about that in a little bit.

I'm very curious and interested to learn about what pulled you to marry together, shamanism and midwifery. Because I mean it's like it's in my cells and being as well. But yes, please tell me like that little origin story.

JANE: Well, so joining shamanism and midwifery together changed my life and it was the most incredible experience and it happened back in 1989 or 1990, long time ago.

And it happened because I went to El Paso, Texas to a midwives and mothers workshop to promote the second international home birth conference that me and many of my peers were organizing in Australia.

This is back before mobile phones, before computers. We didn't have computers, so it was all by post letters, snail mail as we call it now. So to go somewhere, the only way you would promote something would be to go somewhere and talk about it.

So that's what we did. We went to Texas to promote this international home birth conference. That was huge. We had Ina May, Elizabeth Davis, Marsden Wagner, Stephen Biddulph, like so many people from all around the world came.

Anyway, there was a pre conference workshop run by Janine Parvati Baker called Shamanic Midwifery. And I thought, oh my goodness, like wonderful, because I had already been, I was already a home birth midwife and I had already been studying and learning shamanic practices.

And so to see those two things come together was like, this is what I've been waiting for. And so I sat in on Janine's workshop, which was basically, I can see the picture in my mind, maybe like, oh, it had to be like 150 women sitting on the floor with her kind of in the center of what was going to be a small circle probably.

But so many people arrived and it was amazing just to be there with all the like minded women. And she talked about basically the relationship between shamanism and birth and that and as a mid for midwifery practices.

So she always would say too that every woman is a midwife. So it's not exclusive to trained midwives or untrained midwives. Every woman is a midwife. And I really love that concept so much.

It just reminds me of how much we've robbed women of birth knowledge.

EMILY: Yes.

JANE: You know, yes. Anyway, back to the workshop and Janine. So basically she talked about birth as a shamanic process, like primo. And I can't really remember much more from that. That's a long time ago.

But she and I became friends, connected. She was my teacher, my mentor. She came out to stay with us in Australia a few times. I did her program. This is like back in the day, like the programs you would do with somebody would be, what do they call it?

Correspondence course.

And she would post out the documents and you'd answer the questions and post them back and she would post them back with comments. And you can imagine how long that all took.

But it was, it was an event, you know, and so I learned so much about, from her, about shamanism and midwifery and all of the women's mysteries.

I knew some of it already before that, but she helped me combine the shamanism and midwifery. And she died in 2005 as a 54 year old or something like that, so way too young.

And I made a deathbed promise to her.

I visited her in Utah at her deathbed and I promised that I would continue her work. So that's basically what the school of Shamanic Woman Craft is about. But it was called the school of Shamanic Midwifery first when I opened it in 2009.

And I was reprimanded about seven years later by the Australian government, the part that registers midwives, saying that I had to change the name. I was not allowed to use the term midwifery and shamanic together and at all because it was a protected term and I would mislead the public.

So, you know, choose your fights, right? Don't fight with. Don't fight a fight you're not going to win. So I changed it to shamanic woman craft, which was another of Janine's terms as well.

So basically that coming together of shamanism and midwifery was really the thing that happened in my life, that created my future, really. And I had no idea that this was what was going to happen for me or to me.

And, you know, I was a. I was a. When I first met Janine, I was living in the city and I was one of the home birth midwives there. I had two children and I had another one later and moved to the country and basically fulfilled my deathbed promise to her to continue her.

EMILY: You did? Yes, you did.

JANE: All the way up to. Even recently, I've turned shamanic woman craft into a modality. So it's a healing modality that you can train to, to be able to offer.

EMILY: I'm going to be getting in on that. Yeah, yeah. I took Anna, you know, Anna the spiritual. She turned from midwife to midwitch.

Yes, yes. So she was my mentor. And her whole mentorship, it pretty much went through a lot of what you teach. I mean, we dove deep into her story. We went through our red thread maternal lineage, our own birth imprint, with your six or seven steps, you know, the preconception, all the way through to bonding and breastfeeding and our own menarch story.

I mean, so last year I went deep into all of that and it is just, it's so crucial and now it's the work that I do with women, you know, helping them prepare for pregnancy and birth and.

Oh, I'm just so on board, Jane. I just so appreciate you.

JANE: Wonderful. Thank you. And, you know, since then, I've had to explain what shamanic midwifery or shamanic woman craft even means. And my pregnancy workshop that I hold is called the Shamanic Dimensions of Pregnancy.

And the way that I explain it so that everybody can understand, is that shamanism, shamanic is an adjective of the noun shamanism, which is the. Or was the original version of all cultures.

And the most dominant perspective or position of shamanism was the interconnectedness of everything.

So in terms of working with the shamanic dimensions of pregnancy, birth, mothering, anything, it's about looking for all the interconnectedness associated with that. In other words, what you are bringing to birth.

Like, for example, your own birth, your red thread, your birth imprint, your menarch, your childhood trauma and all, and your first sexual experience and all these rites of passage. So rites of passage are shamanic experiences because they're all connected.

One rite of passage leads to the next.

EMILY: Yes, yes. Let's first touch on the wisdom of the cycles, just sort of in general, and I do want to touch on the rites of passage, of course, too, but let's first touch on the wisdom of the cycles.

JANE: So it's the wisdom of the cycles is in our body, in the earth, in front of us, in nature, in everything that's going on. Everything is going through a cycle, and there is only one cycle.

And it goes birth, growth, full bloom, harvest, decay, death, rebirth, growth, full bloom, harvest, decay, death, rebirth, over and over and over. So everything goes through that cycle just at different speeds.

So a day, a year, a lunar cycle, a menstrual cycle, a lifetime. And for some of the cycles, it's literal, like the vegetation cycle in the cycle of the earth, seasons, it's literal birth, growth, full bloom, et cetera.

And for others, it's metaphorical.

And so understanding the wisdom of the cycles, it's basically the map. It's the map of what's going on and gives you the clues for how to be with where you are and what's coming next and what went before that's impacting what's happening now and all of those sorts of things.

So this is a big part of everything that I teach. It's basically, it's the foundation because it's weirdly crazy, sadly, what they. They forgot to teach us, you know. So it's really.

This is kind of the basis of my Moon song workshop, which is Also including going into the rites of passage, and particularly the menarch, and healing the menarche and the spiritual practice of menstruation.

So that's the Moon Song workshop, which I'll be doing in Mexico and in many places in Canada, two places in Mexico.

And basically that this information about the wisdom of the cycles is more of a remembering. Like, we know this, we're living it, our bodies are doing it, as I said.

But it's something that in a patriarchal culture where we live, that values the masculine over the feminine. In a growth economy, in a capitalist society, the fixation is on youth and beauty and 247 availability and growth.

Every business has new growth targets every year.

There is nothing in nature that's healthy that keeps growing.

So in our culture, we've forgotten the dissent, we've forgotten that we do need to come down and that down is not bad, it's just down. And up is not good or the best, it's just up.

So everything in nature does this. You know, it's not a full moon forever. There's the waxing moon. From the new to the full is the waxing, and the waning is from the full to the dark.

And like seasons, there's a spring, a summer, an autumn and a winter. And the autumn and the winter are like the descent and the spring and the summer are the ascent.

So like, we can't stay in summer forever. And for those of us in the summer of our lives, you know, it feels like it's never going to end, but it does, and it goes so fast.

But in our culture, women get the feeling and the impression that they need to be staying in either the summer or even the spring of their lives, because that's the only version of, of the feminine of women that is valued in the patriarchal culture in her completeness, you know, and so many, so many women of all ages are trying to look like the idealized, idolized version of the feminine held by the patriarchy, which is about a 25 year old, you know, useful, available, energetic, wearing all the clothes that make her look like she's begging for it, all that kind of thing.

So that's the valued model of woman in our culture, which is an exact example of the lack of awareness of the cycle that we go through in our lives, because we have a spring, a summer, an autumn and a winter.

So the wisdom of the cycles is basically a map and it should be taught at school and it should be something that we practice in the home. And there's many cues to do that with.

And here we are coming up to a solstice. So that's like a big time in the year. For you it's the winter solstice. For me it's the summer solstice. But the solstices and the equinoxes and the cross quarter festivals, or sometimes called the sabbats, are all playing out the wisdom of the cycles.

The animals are all doing it. And so basically, it's the way our bodies on every level are supposed to live and be. And if we don't flow with the wisdom of the cycles, our body will tell us and do whatever she has to do to get our attention.

And we see that most clearly when women ignore the menstrual cycle.

And menstrual pathology is through the roof, sadly.

So that's the wisdom of the cycles and the wisdom within. That is basically what the key words are for, for each of the phases, which is what I said about birth, growth, full bloom, harvest, decay, death, rebirth.

EMILY: Yes, yes, thank you. Yeah. Actually, I just accepted an invitation to a sweat lodge on Sunday. So that is going to be a big part of my solstice ceremonial proceedings. Yes, I'm really excited.

JANE: And that's a full moon too.

EMILY: Yes. Yeah. And I'll be hosting my women's circle next week. Yeah, it's going to be lovely. Yes. Jane. So then, what are the women's mysteries?

JANE: Great term, isn't it? The women's mysteries, often also called the blood mysteries, and basically what they are, the significant rites of passage that we experience in our life. So back in the day, the women's mysteries were childbirth, sorry, menarche, childbirth and menopause.

So we expanded that to include the whole life stage. So it includes your birth, your menarch, your first sexual experience, which is also relatively a blood mystery. And then every, every pregnancy results in a birth, including a loss or an abortion.

Whatever finishes the pregnancy is the birth and then menopause and then death. So basically the women's mysteries are the transformational rites of passage that we go through in our lives.

And, you know, back in the day and in many modern cultures and in lots of traditional cultures, these are honored and celebrated and, and that's so important because if you don't have a rite of passage, whatever happens is the rite of passage.

So we'll go into rites of passage and how we must be paying attention to those. But as well, within the women's ministries is the menstrual cycle. So the menstrual cycle is a cycle that is running our life, whether we want to, want it to, or realize that or not.

And running the life of everybody who lives under the same roof as us. And as I always say, if you don't believe that, just ask them.

And the blood mysteries that are involved in the menstrual cycle are the spiritual practice of menstruation.

So that's about, like, not switching it off, not ignoring it. It's about being, being with the menstrual cycle. Because the menstrual cycle is, well, as being recently decided by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

Just before, I think it was in the late 1990s or early 2000s, they decided that the menstrual cycle is the fifth vital sign for a woman. So temperature, pulse, blood pressure, respiration, and menstrual cycle.

So, you know that version of God. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists has declared that the menstrual cycle matters.

Surprise, surprise. So being with the menstrual cycle in a way of deep respect and deep listening as a spiritual practice, is also part of the women's mysteries.

EMILY: Yeah, yeah. And I just, I think of, of course, our men and women and the education that they need and their rites of passage that they do not have. I actually have a very deep desire to, because I hear so many birth stories, you know, and just my own experience and men becoming fathers before they've become men, you know what I mean?

They didn't have a rite of passage into manhood and then they're becoming fathers.

It's a whole other topic. I know you said you, you mentioned that you do also work with men, but I just wonder your thoughts on that.

JANE: Yeah, well, the thing is, like I said before, if they don't have a rite of passage, whatever happens is the rite of passage.

So welcoming boys to manhood is a very important thing that needs to happen.

And one, I was just. I've just been this year. So in 2020, for. Earlier this year, I did a tour of the UK and Europe and I did 23 workshops in seven different cities.

And it was huge. And there were three issues that came up repetitively of women wanting more information about or struggling with. And one of them was menopause for women with young children.

The other was menopause for women with no children. And the other one was initiating boys into manhood. And as I always say, we can't do that.

It's not a woman's job. The mother needs to hand her boy over. To the men for his initiation or welcoming into manhood. And like I said, if that doesn't happen, they will create something that signifies their journey to manhood.

And most often it's some version of some risky behavior which is, you know, not really what we want to be happening, because what happens at the rite of passage teaches them how to be men.

So it's really important that our boys are initiated into manhood by the men, but not by, you know, by. Not just by their dad. It's got to be the community of men.

And, you know, women don't have a job in that, but they probably need to get the men organized to do it.

EMILY: Yeah, I have a son. Yes, I'll be on it.

JANE: Right. So around 13 is the age to do it. And some boys will be more mature physically than others. But you know, and one thing I wanted to share that in terms.

So it's kind of easy to see when a girl becomes a woman because there's blood on her undies. And one of our teachers here in Australia and at first nations indigenous woman, Australian Aboriginal, who's teacher, she said that says that boys, the mark for a boy is their first wet dream when they spill their seed, when they become fertile, which is basically what's happening at the menstrual cycle, right?

We become the beginning of the menstrual cycle. We begin our fertility.

So that's probably not necessarily something that mothers are going to know about, but they might be able to tell or not. But there's also so much embarrassment around that kind of thing in our culture as there is around the blood.

So there's so much undoing to be done here to be able to really honor these rites of passage. And the other thing about boys and the education that they need little boys learning about the menstrual cycle by watching their mother.

So what I always suggest to mothers of little boys and girls too, obviously, so this goes for both of them, but there's only a small window of time when the boys are going to be paying attention to this particular thing.

And when they're little, you can't go to the toilet on your own, right? So women would be having to do some clever gymnastics to be hiding what they're doing if they're changing a pad, a menstrual cup, a tampon or whatever.

So I always suggest that you explain it. Oh, Mummy's bleeding now. Oh, great.

That means we need to have. That means we get to have a rest today.

Let's sit on the sofa. Today we'll Read more books today or let's have an extra walk or whatever it is, just so you slowly, every cycle, teaching the boys and the girls that the menstrual cycle is something to pay attention to and to honor and to do what your body is telling you to do.

Like. So I think that's actually a most important thing for mothers of little children to remember that they are teaching their girls, but particularly the boys, about it. Then the next time they learn about it will be either with a sibling going through it, but they may not be involved in that, or at school in the science class.

And then it's all about the fear of getting pregnant or whatever. So I think it's a good time to teach the little boys when they're little.

EMILY: Yes. And I do. Yes. He sees my blood. He knows when I'm bleeding.

JANE: Wonderful.

EMILY: Oh, so let's go through the rites of passage and just talk about, you know, those lessons that we should hopefully be learning. And I love how you say this. You know, whatever happens is the rite of passage, whether conscious or unconscious, and we need to bring consciousness to them.

So let's. Let's do it.

JANE: Yep. Great. Okay. So rites of passage. There's lots of rites of passage that we experience in our life, and some are cultural and some are physical, and the physical ones are cultural as well.

But we're focusing in on the rites of passage in the women's mysteries that I just mentioned. So whatever happens at a rite of passage, whatever does or doesn't happen, who's there, what they say, what they don't say, and whatever's going on in your family or in the.

In your world at the time of the rite of passage. So that would be Menachem for the girls, when your first blood comes every pregnancy and birth and then menopause and the first sexual experience.

So whatever happens or doesn't adds up to teach the person going through the rite of passage on a subliminal level, which means you don't even realize you're being taught. We are being enculturated, which is just a nice way of saying brainwashed into how our culture values the next role we're going into and therefore how to behave to be accepted by the culture.

So I hope your listeners are thinking, oh, my God, what happened at my menarch? What. So this is the homework. What happened at your menarche?

Who was there? What did they say? What did happen? What didn't happen? What did that teach you about the value of woman and therefore how to be a woman? And what did it teach you about how you're supposed to behave to be accepted?

So I do this in my workshops and just giving this here now, the idea is that you figure out what message you got about being a woman, which, you know, for the majority of women is some combination of don't make a fuss, don't draw attention to yourself, carry on business as usual, and whatever you do, don't leak or you'll shame us all.

So that sets this idea up about what you have to do to behave, how you have to behave to be a woman.

And then we get this message. And so the homework is to what's. How has that played out in your life?

Just recall all the times you've done this, that or the other. That is being, you know, making yourself smaller or not making a fuss or whatever. You know, it may not be those messages, whatever it is.

And the. The important part is to come up with a new message for your inner maiden about being a woman. Because that inner maiden doesn't go away. She is in residence all the time, forever, and mostly in the driver's seat most of the time, and most of the time in her most wounded form.

So if we can update our inner maidens with what it means to be a woman. So that's the point. You've got to come up with a new message. And if you can't come up with anything creative, just use the positive of whatever the negative messages were that you got, and then you need to live that.

So that's an example of the menarch. Now back to what rites of passage do.

So rites of passage create culture.

So they create culture on the inside by the mindset that it creates, the beliefs, the attitudes, and the fears that the experience has you formulate, and it creates culture on the outside, because most people have the same experience and therefore have the same mindset.

So everybody's running on the same program, so to speak. Now, our rites of passage are not curses.

They're simply, well, like I said, for the menarche, you can heal that. So you can heal your menarche, you can heal your first sexual experience. You can heal your every.

Every pregnancy and birth and menopause by delving deeply into it. To ask, how did this serve? What does this teach me about myself in the way of things?

And using the mandate of Hygiea, the goddess of health and healing is the wound reveals the cure.

So we can look through that lens to figure out what we need to do to heal our rites of passage and then have a New kind of perspective moving forward.

But in terms of how we were born, our birth imprint, that too is not a curse. It's simply a pattern for us to come to figure out and recognize and figure out how to work with it rather than be worked by it.

So this is, you know, I hear you're doing that work as well. So this is, this is huge. You know, people. Yeah, people learn these things and think, oh my God, that's so much easier.

Or why? That's why I keep doing what I keep doing.

So rites of passage, one leads to the next.

And when you come to a rite of passage, you come to a fork in the road.

And one way is the usual way, the same old, same old way. The way it always happens to me or in my family or in my culture. And that often is the wounded way, but we don't even realize it.

The other fork in the road is the healed way. But to even know there's a healed way, you have to realize you're on the wounded way. Then you need to do the inner work that bridges the two, which sets you off in the healed direction.

Which doesn't mean everything's going to go your way. It means you're going to be bringing consciousness to the decisions and choices that you made that led you on that same old, same old path and encourage you to make different choices if you want different outcomes.

So what we can see, and in shamanic woman craft, we map people's rites of passage to see the trajectory that they're on because one leads to the next. Right. So usually, sadly, most people are on this wounded trajectory and sometimes something happens which brings them off, you know, like they could have had a, an interventionist birth, which depending on your age, you probably were or at least separated from your mother.

Things are changing now, so we're going to see different things in the younger generations going forward. But you know, anybody probably, well, even being born now, they're usually separated from their mother if they're in a hospital, but whatever.

So the trajectory, sometimes things can happen where there's a, you know, disturbed, disrupted birth and then the menarch, you know, like, the thing is that our red thread, female ancestral trauma, often plays out in our rites of passage, the times when we transform.

Because at, when at your birth, it's the coming together of your mother's story and you're the baby, the baby's story beginning. You know, we always know that the birth experience is exactly what's needed to set us off on the path that we're on.

You know, like, we look back at our previous rites of passage, and with not having those, we wouldn't be who we are. So it's not about, like, rejecting the whole experience.

It's about figuring out why we've had those, what that's taught us. But this trajectory shift in. Oh, sorry. In menarche, mothers usually initiate their daughters into womanhood in the same way they were.

Unless they wake up and think, I do not want my daughter to go through what I went through, I'm going to do the inner work required to initiate my daughter into womanhood in an empowering way.

So that's happening more and more these days. Thank the Goddess.

EMILY: Thank the Goddess.

JANE: Yeah. But then sometimes people might have a positive first sexual experience, you know, rare but possible.

And that can shift the trajectory, you know, or they. Or they wake up at. After a birth experience having what we call in shamanic practices, a shadow awakening. You know, they have a traumatic experience and ask of the experience, why did that happen to me?

And that can be the unraveling which sets them off in the healed direction. You know, so many times, as you would well know, women often learn about birth by having a baby and then realize what they didn't know and then have a very different and hopefully healed experience next time.

And a healed birth experience doesn't necessarily mean an orgasmic water birth or free birth. It could be an elective cesarean. You know, it's about a woman being in her power and making her own choices and decisions from an informed place.

EMILY: Yes.

JANE: So rites of passage, kind of.

Well, what you can do by seeing that one leads to the next is you can see what the setup is for the next one if you don't do anything about it and what the issues are that you need to deal with to be able to shift from the same old same old.

And I also like to see it like, if you line up all your rites of passage and look down, what you can see is your life journey and life purpose.

So they're great teachers. Like, our births are our teachers. They're not just some random medical event that needs an expert to keep you safe and alive. They are our teacher.

And then after we give birth, our baby child becomes the teacher.

So rites of passage again, I think that important thing is that if you don't pay attention to it, it's still happening and often in a negative way.

EMILY: Yes, yes.

Yeah. So we'll. We'll dive deeper into menopause at the end here. Do you want to touch on a little bit about your Workshops and what you're going to be doing in Canada and Mexico before we dive into the menopause and perimenopause.

JANE: Sure. Well, I mentioned the Moonsong workshop. That's the first one. So that's about the wisdom of the cycles and our rites of passage. And we do a healing thing around the menarche, our first period.

And we learn about the spiritual practice of menstruation. And this workshop, that's the one I've been. Oh, no, I've done the pregnancy workshop. The longest but pretty. Followed close by by the Moonsong workshop.

And the. The most dominant thing women say after they do that is, why didn't they teach us this at school? And, oh, my God, everything makes sense now. And oh, dear, I need to pay attention to my menstrual cycle.

So many women pull their IUDs out, stop taking the pill, you know, get off hormonal contraception, learn about contraception. You know, like contraception. My goodness, it's all.

EMILY: It's.

JANE: Yeah. So that's that workshop, and then the next one is the Shamanic Dimensions of Pregnancy. And this is for women, not just women who've had babies, because when we're in the summer or mother season of our lives, we are also the creatrix.

So we conceive, gestate, birth, and each look after all manner of things besides human babies, careers, homes, new versions of ourselves, projects, businesses, all kinds of things. So in that summertime, we are the creatrix as well as the mother of humans.

And so the workshop dives deep into our birth imprint so that we can see what that is and therefore see the importance of birth, because you're creating the birth imprint for the person who's being born.

And we look deeply into what we're bringing to birth. And that could be birth of a human or birth of a project or a new version of yourself or a career or whatever.

And we look at the. So that's the shamanic dimension. So looking at the previous rites of passage so far and how they're going to impact our experience of birthing. And we unravel our previous births to figure out what they taught us.

And then we do. We. We do an exploration into our brain waves in the. In the point of having an experience where we relive our birth imprint in a creative process, because that's where our birthing.

Yeah, our birth imprint often plays out when we birth things so creatively.

So. And also when we're engaged in a process, anything that has a beginning, a middle or an end, our birth imprint plays out. So we do a creative project where women are noticing their birth imprint and what to do about it and go deep into the brainwave state.

That happens when we do single pointed focus creatively and, and co create an environment when we're all doing that, that is an example of the ideal birthing environment.

So and then we do a journey into the womb, the women's wombs, to meet the baby if they're pregnant, or meet their inner goddess or whatever's relevant. So some shamanic journey, shamanic journeying also in that first one, to speak with your inner goddess, to get a healing ritual for your menarch.

And then the menopause workshop. Autumn woman, Harvest Queen. Now some women come to just one or two or whatever, but if, if you can, to come to the three is perfect because they build on each other.

And you don't have to be menopausal or perimenopausal to do the menopause workshop. The best time to learn about menopause is way before menopause. You know, like we've, we've figured out it's a good idea to prepare for childbirth.

Like there are industries around that some mothers are figuring out it's a good idea to prepare their daughters before the menstrual cycle. But preparing for menopause is like not really a thing.

So that's what we're doing. We're either preparing for this workshop is about preparing for menopause or understanding what's going on if you're in it, or understanding what happened if you're beyond it.

So we look at menopause in, in context, in the context of the culture, in the context of the cycles and in the context of our personal life. Because what happens at menopause is not some random thing.

It's the culmination of your life so far. It's like a readout of your lifestyle. And it's all pretty much predictable. So in preparing for it you can get ready. So we'll talk a little bit about that later.

And the other thing that happens in that workshop is a somatic experience of finding where what might arise in menopause or what is arising in menopause, where it is in your body and then moving to release it.

And we also do a creative process with clay. And then we talk about all the things that everybody wants to talk about, like sex.

EMILY: Beautiful. Amazing. I have a woman giving birth that I'm working with in June, right about the time that you're doing the one in I think Toronto or Quebec. Toronto might be the closer one to me, so I don't think I could make it.

JANE: But you can do it last minute if you know. I'm always happy to take last minute bookings.

EMILY: Oh, I love to hear that. Are you going to be doing America though?

JANE: No, not going to America.

EMILY: Why not?

JANE: It's too hard to get in. I can't come in and do this work there.

EMILY: You can strictly.

JANE: No, very strict borders. You have to have a special visa and it costs a lot of money and.

EMILY: Yeah, so I did not know that.

JANE: Yeah. So that's why I'm choosing to go to Mexico and Canada because American women can get to those places.

EMILY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm up in Maine, so not too far away from Canada.

JANE: Yeah, I'll be going to Montreal as well. Montreal.

EMILY: Montreal's the one.

JANE: Yeah, that's true. And Calgary and Vancouver.

EMILY: Amazing.

JANE: Yeah. And I'm also doing as well as the workshops and so two places in Mexico, one in Tulum and the other in Mexico City in the jungle, which the venue looks amazing.

Besides those three workshops in a row, I'm also doing two eight day intensive programs where it's a deep dive into shamanic woman craft. And we go through all the seasons of our lives, all the rites of passage, and everybody makes a brain drum at the beginning and then it dries over the time.

So there's a birth. We work with your birth imprint, with birthing the drum and then the drum dries and at the end we all play the drum together. So that's happening in Mexico and also in golden in bc.

EMILY: That sounds dreamy. Amazing.

JANE: The other thing that's going on with all of that is the opportunity for women to do a workshop apprenticeship. So learn how to teach those three workshops that I just talked about.

And there's prerequisites to be able to do that. And one of them could be attending the eight day program. So if you attend the eight day program, you could then apply to do the workshop apprenticeship for any or all of those workshops.

And it's an application because you need to have had some previous experience in running circles or workshops before. So that's another opportunity.

EMILY: Taking note.

JANE: And I just did all of this, as I said, in the UK and Europe earlier in the year.

EMILY: So yeah, you were a busy gal. I was following you along on Instagram. You were, you were rocking it.

It's so amazing seeing all those women like in, you know, in the videos that you had. Just. Oh, just it's. I'm seeing myself you know, I am with that reflection.

It's just so beautiful.

JANE: So good. So good. So good. There were like 700 women sat in circles. Some of them were the same woman in another circle, but 700 seats in circle.

EMILY: There's such a beautiful. There is a revolution happening. There is an awakening happening.

Absolutely. And your deathbed promise was a big part of that. So thank you again.

Let's dive into perimenopause.

You know, as I mentioned, I'm 40. I think my mom was probably.

I think she was the pretty classic 50 year old when she entered in. My older sister, she's four years older than me, she feels that she's entering perimenopause.

Yeah. And I. I'm here to learn. So, Jane, fill me up.

JANE: Okay. Okay. So the big question is, when is our last menstrual period going to be? And we never know.

Just like we never know necessarily when our period's going to start. So it's one of the women's mysteries.

So we use. But you can. There are some predictors of when it's going to be. We usually have our menstrual cycle for 40 years.

EMILY: 40.

JANE: Yep. So give or take a year either side. So if you were 13 when your period started, then maybe 53 would be your last period. But that's just the last period.

The journey of menopause starts before that. Now, just to put it in context, I just want to say.

So everybody's heard of adolescence. We know what that is. The becoming an adult. The next thing is mattressence, the becoming a mother, which is a new concept. It's not that new.

It was created by Dana raphael in the 1970s, and it refers to the becoming a mother. So it's like adolescence. It takes some time, and you find who you're going to be as an adult.

In mattressence, it takes some time and you figure out who you are going to be as a mother. So then the next one. And that happens every birth because it's very different being a mother of two or three or four.

And then the next essence. Not essence, adolescence. The next sense.

Instead of perimenopause. Menopause, post menopause, everybody getting so mixed up about what's what, and it all sounds very medical. I've come up with a new term for that whole journey, and it's sagescen.

EMILY: I love that so much.

JANE: So adolescence matrescence and sagescence. So it's a journey.

It takes as long as it takes, and it often takes a decade. And what takes a decade Is the shift of your hormones to the menstrual cycle. Hormones which has the estrogen and progesterone doing this through the cycle to a 10 year process, which has them doing this coming down to a new level, which is actually not new.

It's the same as it was pre menarch, which blows my mind. So if you want to figure out who you're going to be post menopause, it'll be whoever you were pre menarch, filled with all your life experience.

EMILY: Well, that's really exciting. I'm feeling great about it.

JANE: Then you know, menopause is. Got such a bad rap because it is part of the descent.

It is part of. I mean menopause gets blamed for so many things, including aging. Like aging is inevitable and menopause is not the blame. Not, not the what's not the cause.

Everybody will age. Men age, they don't have menopause. So aging is the descent. And it's the thing in our culture that is rejected. Like there's huge industries to anti aging.

Right.

Ridiculous. Anyway, so menopause, so 40 years or so. And that's for a normal physiological menopause. Right. So there are other kinds of menopause, which. There's chemical menopause if you have to take estrogen blockers for a cancer.

Because estrogen, which keeps the menstrual cycle going makes things grow so tumors. So often people are given estrogen blockers and that catapults you into menopause.

And there's no decade of winding down. It's a splat.

And then surgical menopause, which is when you have your ovaries cut out so you can have a hysterectomy and not going to menopause if your ovaries are still there. The cycle keeps going.

So women, women who've had a hysterectomy for whatever reason, they still be ovulating until they're not. And then they go through the wind down to their new old levels. And then there's premature menopause, which is rare.

And so they happen whenever they happen. And if ever there was a good reason for hrt, I would say it's with those surgical. Well, with all of those. When there's no winding down that it.

But what would be great would be to replicate that rather than just keeping you hovering above it. Yeah.

And there's lots of contraindications for HRT as well.

EMILY: And hormone replacement therapy, just in case anyone's wondering.

JANE: Yes, sorry. Which has been rebranded and now called menopause hormone therapy. It's got a whole new branding, a whole new publicity process, a whole new, I'm not disrespecting hrt, mht menopause hormone therapy, because some women will need it.

Just like in childbirth. Some women need help, but not everybody. And I think that's something that we've learned from childbirth. We've learned so much from childbirth about what facilitates physiological childbirth that we need to remember and bring to menopause.

Because physiological childbirth, we already know, is the safest thing for a mother and a baby. So physiological menopause is going to be the safest thing for the mother and the baby because it is a birth.

Menopausen is a labor and a birth. And the labor and the birth take as long as they take. Possibly a decade of you winding down. And that doesn't mean you're feeling terrible for 10 years.

It's just the process of your hormones dropping. And the baby is the wise woman version of us.

So seeing it from that perspective is much better because, like, in our current culture, it's being talked about as a dangerous event to be avoided and being associated with so many things, like I said, aging, but also, you know, increased risk of dementia and osteoporosis and, and heart disease.

And, you know, like, none of those things are going to be a surprise to the person who gets it. And it's not menopause that's causing it. One of the greatest indicators of osteopenia and osteoporosis in menopause is having an eating disorder when you're growing up or as an adult, because that means you're malnourished and your bones, you know, your bones get minerals withdrawn from them to keep you alive, basically.

So for anybody who's experienced or had an eating disorder in their youth or even, you know, not that far away from where they are, that there's things you can do about it and there's lots of supplements that you can take.

Now, I'm not really all over that, but it's not just calcium. You know, you need to take all kinds of things. And I would recommend on Instagram, Helen Patteran, as a naturopath who has lots of posts about how to build bone health.

So that would be a thing to get to do. Yeah. Now, in terms of back to.

Back to the story, so in a physiological menopause, in the natural process, the first thing that happens, and it usually happens about five years before your last period, but you never know when that is, is that progesterone declines and progesterone.

And that's why the first sign we may see is that we don't ovulate every cycle.

So it's really important in preparation for menopause that everybody gets all over their menstrual cycle so that they can tell when they ovulate and honor their blood, because soon it will go.

So progesterone declines and progesterone is a mild sedative.

So the first thing that happens is we are no longer mildly sedated.

And we may not notice that we were mildly sedated until we're not.

And what that looks like is like, you know, like what's going on around here.

It's like you wake up from being sedated and how that is will be different for everybody. And then the next thing that happens is that estrogen starts to decline.

And so there's two phases.

The first phase is low progesterone and high estrogen, but it's not higher than it was before, it's just higher than it is relatively to the progesterone. And the next phase is low progesterone and decreasing estrogen.

And estrogen is known as the hormone of accommodation and self sacrifice.

So at menarch, the veil of estrogen descends upon us.

And as teenagers or younger, however old you are when you get your period and this veil of estrogen descends upon you, the hormone of accommodation and self sacrifice. What that looks like when we're younger is we just want to fit in.

We want to. We want to look like everybody else. We want to do the same things as all the other girls. We want to.

We basically sacrifice who we were to accommodate everybody else.

EMILY: Gosh, that's so true.

JANE: Yeah. And fit in and. And then what it looks like as we get older is we dedicate ourselves to the things that we need to look after. You know, the hormone of accommodation and self sacrifice.

What that looks like with, say, when you're. When you're running your business or your career.

I'll get up and go to work no matter what. My community depends on me. What would happen if I wasn't there? I have to do this. I'll be there. Or when you've got children, maybe it's like, whatever you want, honey.

Let's just do what's best for the children.

I know I haven't eaten. You have it or don't worry. Run along. I'll clean up and catch up.

And then. And I'm kind of taking the piss a bit, but it's Mother Nature's way of making sure the babies get looked after because we are richly rewarded for it too.

So long as we arrive there healthy and not traumatized, it feels good to look after our babies and our work and everything. But then, you know, as you get closer to your last period, this veil of the hormone of accommodation and self sacrifice begins to rise and it gets to about here.

And then the women are saying, oh my God, what's going on around here?

Pick up your washing.

What do you mean, pick up my washing? I mean pick up your washing. I didn't pick it up yesterday and it was okay. Well, it's not okay today. You've changed.

Yes, I've changed.

So it's kind of shocking, the change that we feel, because it's very different to how we felt when we were like, oh, don't worry, I'll do it.

And so it is shocking for the people around us as well. But it's only shocking because we're not ready for it. If we knew that this was going to happen, we would be able to detect the prequels to it and see it building or lessening, whichever way.

And everybody in our family would know because actually it's quite similar to week three of the menstrual cycle.

EMILY: I was about to weave that in here because. Yes, very similar, I would imagine, anyway.

JANE: Yes, because that's when estrogen descends in the menstrual cycle. And it's known as our inner autumn or the truth telling time. It's the time when we no longer put up with stuff and it's been pathologized.

In our culture it's called premenstrual syndrome, when women stop complying.

So sadly, sadly, our emotions, our feelings have been pathologized.

You know, you feel anxious about something, you've got anxiety, you need to be medicated, you feel down, or you're depressed, you've got depression. Now, I'm not trying to say that extremes of that are not real because obviously they are, but the pathologization of our feelings really shows up in menopause too, because as Dr.

Christian Northrup says, and she has a wonderful book about menopause called the Wisdom of Menopause. And it's from a mind, body, spirit perspective, you know, the interconnectedness of everything. She says that everything you've swept under the carpet comes out at menopause for you to heal going forward into the second half of your life.

Now, the thing about what arises for us through this waning of estrogen and progesterone.

So estrogen that we have estrogen receptors everywhere in our body skin. So that's why it stops looking. So just show me your top of your hand.

Light, nice and plump and pull the skin up. It's a beautiful like, you know, stretchy and elastic. So mine see gets, it is different. It's, it's like, gets paper thin and, you know, which isn't bad, it's just different.

Right? And that's because there's estrogen receptors in the skin, there's estrogen receptors in the brain, in the gut, in the heart, in the. Everywhere. And everything is getting organized, reorganized around a new different level of estrogen.

And so the feelings that we have, the experiences that we have, which I'm saying experience instead of symptom, because a symptom is a sign of a disease and menopause is not a disease.

And it doesn't even need a diagnosis. Currently you're diagnosed as being postmenopause when you've stopped bleeding for one year. Plenty of women have another period a year later. I had, I had my last period when I was 54, and then I had my next last period when I was 56 and I ovulated as well.

EMILY: Wow.

JANE: So, you know, you never know until it's just stopped. So there's no diagnosis, it's not a disease. So basically the process is what happens as every part of our body gets reorganized around a different hormone level and everything arises, you know, so many things, because menopause is the shift from the summer of our lives into the autumn of our lives.

And autumn is the season of harvest, which is feedback.

So what we're receiving at menopause and at week three of our menstrual cycle. So at week three of the menstrual cycle, you're receiving feedback from what you did at the beginning of the cycle, which is when you bled.

So if you rush through your bleeding phase and you ignore it and carry on, then you'll probably have a difficult week three because it's the feedback of the non rest, so you start exhausted.

So menopause is the feedback of the spring of our lives, which is 0 to 25 years old, our maidenhood. And then that all just grows in the summer. Remember, birth, growth, full bloom.

So the birth and the growth, just like in the garden, is what you see the harvest of.

EMILY: So I'm thinking with myself like I was a crazy person until I turned 25. Like I did not take care of myself at all. It was just a mess, right? But I turned everything around in my late 20s and 30s, you know, broke the chains of my ancestral lineage and had a beautiful natural birth at 37.

And.

And so, like, I've. I've shifted. I've veered off that path from the wounded path. So I'm just. I'm feeling a little more positive about that reflection of, you know, my.

My maiden wasn't so great, but I've shifted things.

JANE: Yep. And you still had that maidenhood.

EMILY: Yeah.

JANE: So that was that, that was the. That was the budding and blossoming of you. So if you think about a.

A plant that eventually grows a fruit or a vegetable, so what happens in the beginning affects the whole growth. So I'm not saying this to scare you, but, you know, plenty of us can have amazing births and yet still meet a lot in our menopause.

Has its roots in our inner child.

EMILY: Yes, ma'am. And, you know, I take such great care of myself during my bleed these days, you know, for several years now, since I got it back after I'm giving birth.

But my luteal phase is still quite, like, it's big, you know, like, I need a lot of space.

I need a lot of space.

JANE: But as you close, there's your clues. You'll need a lot of space. And when you take that space, is that good? Like, does that help? Yeah. And. And what do you do in that space?

Because that's what you need to remember to do in perimenopause. E Suggestance.

EMILY: I like to organize. I like to check lists. I like to. I like to just have everything organized.

JANE: Great. So getting organized for menopause is probably. That's a clue there for you. And organized would mean.

EMILY: I also like to throw stuff out that I don't need anymore.

JANE: Perfect. Because that's what's going to happen in autumn. Right. It's not just harvest, it's letting go, just like the leaves fall off the trees.

So a lot of letting go happens at menopause. And that can bring up lots of grief, but it can also bring up a lot of relief too. So there's no prescriptive.

You're going to have this because of this.

It's really. The clues are your premenstrum, because that's the other time that you've experienced the decrease in estrogen. And then the thing after.

After menopause is finished and the hormones are back down to where they're going to be, our dominant sex hormone is testosterone.

So the only time in our menstrual cycle when that's the case is just before we bleed.

So we can make, make friends with that part of you too. It's probably much more inward and directed.

So the other thing about menopause is that we can prepare for it by getting strong and fit. It's easier to put on muscle when you've got lots of estrogen.

Doing your inner child work, healing your men are and connecting with your menstrual cycle, like I said before, and healing your birth experiences, if that's necessary, and healing your red thread.

So all of this stuff is what's going to come up in menopause. And how it comes up is through the physical, through your experience of the physical symptoms, experiences. So for example, hot flushes.

So 80% of women have hot flushes and they.

And 40% of women over 60 continue to have hot flushes.

So hot flashes are happening because one of the things that estrogen does is shift the temperature regulation system in your body so that it reduces the bandwidth of what your body's going to handle in, so you get hotter sooner and colder sooner.

And so when we get hot, our body does two things to cool us down on automatic.

You bring the blood to the surface so you can lose temperature, heat, and you sweat because that's like our aircon. So that's what the body's doing with the hot flush.

Now that's just something that happens until it stops happening or maybe continues. Now, in terms of what arises for us with that experience, that's the work. You know, we have the physical experience, but the inner work is dealing with all the things we're telling ourselves or all the things that it's bringing up for us within that experience.

And just my story around hot flushes as an example, it took me eight years of hot flushes before I realized I was enduring them, just like, you know, enduring them, which is what I did with the contractions in my first birth, which ended up as a cesarean, because I didn't surrender.

I wasn't surrendering to these hot flashes, but I didn't even realize I wasn't. If I remembered my birth teaching, I would have got it a bit sooner, but. Which is an important thing.

Our births prepare us for menopause.

But when I realized I was enduring them, like, I wouldn't even take off my layers. I would just sit there or whatever. When I realized I was doing that, my entire childhood unraveled where I realized that I actually was through all kinds of different experiences, taught to endure things.

So that was my default.

So it took a long time for me to realize that. But when I Did it didn't make the hot flushes go away. It made me then be able to be with them in a way where I was actually feeling okay, rather than the buildup that I was feeling, which was not okay.

So that's an example. And the other physical experiences, it's. It's going to happen and it's like what arises for you for it, that's the inner work. Now there's lots of ways we can reduce the severity of the symptoms and that's a good thing to start practicing before menopause.

Like reducing caffeine.

Many women, if they stop coffee, stop having hot flushes, reducing alcohol.

You know, there's a thing that happens with alcohol and reducing stress.

So stress. You know, nowadays we're under so much stress even if we don't think we are, you know, because of the physical stress of WI fi pollution, the toxins in the food, like there won't be many women who aren't stressed.

So the thing about stress is we make cortisol, which is the stress hormone and that's poisonous to our body, as is alcohol. So if you're going through the journey of sagestence and drinking lots of alcohol and coffee and under stress, then your liver is going to be really working.

So often our experience of the menopausal symptoms is more of a readout of our adrenal glands and how burnt out we are and the load on our liver. Because if our liver is having to metabolize cortisol and alcohol, it puts the estrogen aside because it's not going to kill you if you don't.

If the cortisol and the alcohol build up, you know, it not good for life. So the liver focuses on them, puts the estrogen away to come back to when it's got the cortisol and alcohol out of the way and it puts it away.

Now, fat.

And if we don't have enough fat, it organizes the body to make more fat to store the estrogen so that it can then come back and get it later.

So exercise reduces cortisol, not too much and not at the wrong times.

And obviously all the different stress reducers that we can do, like meditating and connecting with nature and all the things. So preparing for menopause is understanding what's going on, having the map about it, which I've kind of briefly touched on.

So education and educating your people too, because you want them in the same way that your beloved partner might say, is your period coming soon?

In a nice gentle way, because they're noticing the change, they might also, with you notice.

Oh, looks like changes are starting to happen. I don't think you ovulated this. I don't think I ovulated. Or, you know, you didn't have that surge of libido in the mid cycle, which you won't have if you don't ovulate.

So in relationship, menopause is.

It's really important that everybody knows about what's going on.

So many 40 to 60% of divorces happen at menopause.

EMILY: Makes sense.

JANE: Initiated by women.

You know, this veil of estrogen comes up, and then where the fuck am I? What am I doing here?

For example, you know, so the other thing that we need in menopause is our sisters.

Just like in women's circle that you're doing now, you know what happens. Women talk and they think, oh, my God, I'm not alone. I thought I was the only one that was having that experience.

Turns out everybody's having their version of it. So menopause, women's circles, that I think would be one of the most important things that would reduce suffering.

EMILY: Yes.

JANE: And so we need that village that we hopefully created when we were having our babies.

We need that village still going through menopause. It's so important to share our experiences and our resources and. Have you tried this? And I read this. You know, that's really, really important.

So in turn, shall we go on to menopause for women with young children?

EMILY: Yes, please.

JANE: So this is happening more and more because more women in your generation. So what are you? Gen X?

EMILY: What am I? I don't know. I was born in 85.

JANE: I think I'm maybe the next one.

EMILY: The next one. I'm an. Oh, that's right. I'm a millennial elder.

JANE: Millennial elder. Okay. So the thing. The reason why menopause is on the agenda now and all over social media is because Gen X. So your older sisters are a different generation to the one before, which is boomers.

Me and Gen X are renowned for wanting to know what's going on and wanting more information.

You know, so that's what's happened with the menopause revolution. Like it was never talked about before. It's the biggest taboo. You know, you talk to most women, they've got no idea when their mothers went through menopause.

They may in extreme situations, but it was never talked about.

In the interviews I do with women, I say, what did your mother. What's your imprint on menopause? Nothing. No one talked about it. So now that's changed. So here we have the menopause revolution and it's already a $16 billion industry.

EMILY: Wow.

JANE: And in 2030, there are going to be 1.2 billion menopausal women. So it's a massive market that a lot of people are wanting a piece of. So I think we all need to be very aware of that.

Very aware. It's a big market getting targeted to with drugs and all the other things. But back to what I was saying about menopause for women with young children, your generation and the one before you also were encouraged with the, you can have it all, have a career, have a family.

And then some got even smarter and waited, had a career and then started their family. So we're seeing birth rates over 40 increasing.

And, you know, that's neither good nor bad, it's just what is.

And so if the average age for menopause is 50 and stuff starts changing five years before your period, I mean, before your last period, then things are going to start happening around 45 also, you know, give or take, whatever.

And for some, it can happen way earlier.

So knowing that this is on the cards is step one.

EMILY: Yes.

JANE: And I. I did a post on Instagram about this a few months ago. It had nearly a million views.

EMILY: Yeah.

JANE: And thousands and thousands of comments of women. That's me, it's. And sharing their experiences. Sharing their experiences what help. Sharing their experiences of what didn't, etc. So it's a huge issue, as you said.

So I think most of those women who were commenting had no idea what the signs were for the beginning of sagescence, perimenopause, or even when or how or anything. So education is really important and as I said for everybody.

And you know, they recently did a parliamentary inquiry into menopause here in Australia. A parliamentary inquiry. What is this? Menopause.

EMILY: You're hilarious.

JANE: And there were five terms of reference that they were to cover in the inquiry. And the first one was the cost.

I can't remember what the others one were, but the last one was about the woman's experience.

EMILY: Wow.

JANE: Anyway, one of the things they found in that, well, that was revealed in that inquiry was that doctors, medical practitioners, have one to seven hours of training of menopause in their six years of medical training.

So they don't even know what it is.

And doctors are taught to prescribe things.

EMILY: Right.

JANE: You know, there are some wonderful doctors, but mostly it's all about diagnosis and prescription. As we know more and more every day, more diagnoses and more drugs so back to menopause for women with young children.

So knowing what's going to be coming is really important and then knowing how to prepare ahead of time. So, you know, usually mothers of young children in their 40s are very strong, like physically, because, you know, you do that.

It's a special term in weight training. I can't remember loading or something where you increase the weight that you lift. So that's what's happening to the baby, like every day they're heavier.

So you just keep lifting them and lifting them and you know, you end up having a 2 year old and a 4 year old on each hip. But you're just so strong, right?

So mothers are usually strong from carrying their bags.

EMILY: Good thing. We want that muscle mass, that bone density.

JANE: Exactly. So that's great training. So just, you know, think about what you're doing when you're doing that, you're building muscle and in, when you do weightbearing exercise, it tells your bones they need to be strong.

So it's great preparation. So carry your babies, you know, like, not just push them in strollers, carry them.

And the other thing that I, I wanted to say is about the hormone levels now, when. So breastfeeding is a big ally here.

So when you're breastfeeding, say you're at 40, whatever, and you're breastfeeding, estrogen and progesterone go lower. They're suppressed by the hormones that create the breastfeeding situation.

And instead of those, and with our period kind of put off while we're breastfeeding, we have four hormones that are higher than ever before and stay there, that are the happy hormones.

So we have high prolactin and that promotes relaxation, high oxytocin, and that enhances bonding, high endorphins, and that's our natural pain relief. And it improves our feeling of well being and reduces stress.

And high serotonin, which stabilizes our mood, improves our sleep and reduces postpartum depression risk. So I want to propose that for women having babies in their 40s, that they breastfeed for years.

So, you know, in traditional cultures they would breastfeed for up to four years. And I know everybody freaks out about breastfeeding these days, which is absolutely ridiculous and a clue.

Anything to do with women or the feminine that's put down, made a joke of, made invisible or feared is a clue that it holds great power. And everybody knows and all the data is there, that breastfeeding is the most important, best thing a baby can experience for their life, for the foundation of their health and stuff.

So for women who have babies when they're in their 40s, if you breastfeed for as long as possible, what will happen is you'll build this foundation with, of connection with the baby that will be beautiful and awesome.

You know, the breastfeeding relationship is ideal and perfect and then that will help. What women say happens when the perimenopause starts is that they don't have the energy, they don't have the.

They can't be bothered to spend as much time with their children as they would have before, you know, because what happens as those hormones change in perimenopause is that women are often oriented to themselves for the first time in their adult life.

The hormone of accommodation and self sacrifice drops and we are oriented to ourselves. So if you've got little children, that's a bit of an issue.

EMILY: Yeah.

JANE: And reading the comments on that post that I was talking about, it's, it's the thing. Women feeling bad that they're got less energy, they don't, they can't, they haven't got it in them to sit and play and all of that kind of stuff.

Whereas if they'd spent a big chunk of time breastfeeding, they've established a foundation that can't be rocked.

So then we have to talk about women who don't breastfeed.

So women who don't breastfeed for whatever reason, that's not happening.

So you need to recreate that somehow with the way that you feed the babies with the bottle. So not just giving the propping the bottle in the baby, you know, with the, it's, it's about, it's about the, the hormones that happen with connection and bonding with the baby when you're feeding them.

Obviously the best is when you're breastfeeding. But if you're bottle feeding, you still like don't feed on your phone.

Absolute total connection.

And if babies get that when they're little, that, that's like the foundation that we are all like, that's what nature intended. Right. That's the foundation that's going to support the baby growing up.

And we'll have the foundation that when you're in your perimenopause, in your St. Jessica journey, when you do want more time for yourself, you know that you've given them that best start so you don't have to feel guilty about, oh, I don't want to play Lego anymore today, or don't want to do this or whatever, whatever, you know, well, I'm.

EMILY: Glad I can, I can check that box. I breastfed for 22 months. And I can also say a testament when I ended our breastfeeding journey, when it ended, I went into a bit of a funk.

Like my mental state was like those hormones that I no longer had, I could feel it, it was real. It took about two, almost three months before I started to feel more regulated.

JANE: So that's a kind of a mini journey of it, of what I was just saying, you know. So. Yeah, and I'm not trying to disrespect or shame somebody who doesn't choose to breastfeed or can't, but I would say do the best you can to do that.

EMILY: Yeah. Just presenting the evidence that supports the, the well being of the child and the mother. I think that's, yeah, of course we're not trying to shame. Of course.

JANE: Yeah. And also the kind of birth experience that you have later in your 40s is, is huge as well. So, you know, like in, in the maternity services world, A woman over 35 is called a geriatric mother.

Like what a spell, you know, a bad spell.

And it's ridiculous and so influential, you know, like you, you just say these kinds of things to women and they might go, oh yeah, whatever, but they hear it and they take it in, I'm old.

And then whatever you've got associated with old or geriatric, you know, geriatric birth, what does that look like?

So women in their 40s, and also many women in their 40s will be having their babies conceived through IVF or other assisted fertilizer, assisted reproductive technologies. And that doesn't mean you can't have an empowering birth.

So we know that the safest thing for a mother and a baby is physiological childbirth. Like there's no doubt about it, unless someone has pathology, then you need help. But if you're a healthy 40 something year old planning to have a baby, there's no reason why you can't have a natural birth.

EMILY: And louder for the people in the back.

JANE: And everything about your body is designed to make that happen. And you know, it works.

Women in coma give birth and the things that block our birth experience are our beliefs and our attitudes and our fears.

So a lot of goodness can be done in preparation for menopause that's coming for women choosing to have their babies later, to focus on doing that as, you know, as naturally as possible.

And I, I, I know that, you know, saying that kind of thing, lots of women just drop off, you know, because it's like I Don't want to hear about that.

I can't do that. Blah, blah, blah. And I would encourage them to examine why they think that and who told them that and all of that kind of thing.

EMILY: So I'm like, I'm dreaming up a program right now of prepping women over 40 for births to set them up for healthy menopause. I'm dreaming right now.

JANE: Genius. Genius. And then we want to engage in the spiritual practice of menopause using the transformational opportunities, which are along the lines of what I said before about my hot flush.

You know, it's about what arises for you, that you be with and lots of sexual healing needs to happen.

And look, lots of women. Because I did another post on Instagram about this, and I hear the stories in my workshops, but many women have blissful menopause experiences. Orgasmic hot flushes.

You know, it's not all bad. You know, for some women, it's blissful.

And you could probably predict the women who are going to have that.

And it'll be the ones that are really, you know, at peace with their body and at peace with their sexuality and with aging and, you know, all the physical processes of their bodies.

But back to that. The key question to ask ourselves when we're navigating the journey is of anything that arises, whether it's physical, emotional, or spiritual or mental.

And most of the mental symptoms are temporary, similar to what you just said about your mental symptoms post breastfeeding. Temporary.

But the question to ask of everything is, how does this serve my transformation?

And then that takes you on a journey. You know, you could do that in conversation with somebody who's going to listen, not talk back, listen. Or you can do it through journaling.

And I've actually got an E course called Autumn Woman Harvest Queen that takes women on a. On lots of processes to figure out what. What's going to show up in menopause and what to do about it.

EMILY: Jane, you have just dropped some knowledge wisdoms on us. Knowledge bombs, whatever you want to call it. Oh, wow. We covered so much ground. This was such a gift. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your beautiful day to share with my audience.

JANE: Thank you for inviting me, and thank you for asking all the right questions and being one of the women the earth needs now in sharing it with everybody else.

EMILY: Yes. Why don't you just for clarity's sake, go down how people can find you and what's coming up for you? I'll release this episode whenever it works best for you. I can do it sooner or later.

JANE: Okay, great. Well, I've talked about the siren. It's called the Siren Call tour.

So it's the mermaid call calling the women who want to be the women the earth needs now, who want to wake up. So that's happening in Mexico in May and then Canada in June and July.

And all the information is on the School of Shamanic Woman Crafts website. I can share the link with you to all of that and also on my website. So that's janehardwickcollings.com

so that's going to be a wonderful tour. I know because I just did the one in England and, and Europe. It's just such a wonderful event of all the women gathering and weaving magic together.

And I have E courses and books that you can find on my website. And there's also some big E courses that I've created with lots of help on the School of Shamanic Womancraft website, which is a real journey within.

You can do a year long guided journey with a teacher that I've trained that takes you deep into all of everything that we've been talking about, but from birth to death, actually.

And I also have created an app. So it's the first holistic period tracking app called Spinning Wheels. And it teaches you it's not only a period tracker, but it teaches you the wisdom of the cycle because it tells you.

EMILY: Download it now.

JANE: Yay. So it connects you with the lunar cycle, the earth seasons and your life season and also this other thing that happens that hardly anybody knows about, which is our natal lunar phase return.

So it's the second time in our menstrual cycle that we have the potential to ovulate other than our mid cycle ovulation. And it's the day. It's the day. Every lunar cycle, it's the same day, day as the phase of the moon you were born under.

So this is so important for us to know about. This is the one. I don't know how I got pregnant. I was bleeding or I already ovulated and I got pregnant days and days and days later.

So the app tells you when that is. So it gives you lots of notifications and opportunities to track your cycle so you know what's going on. And we're soon to release a new version of it that'll have a dashboard that will be the first thing that you'll open up and it'll tell you what day you're on, when you're going to bleed, when you're going to ovulate, what the phase of the moon is what the Sabbath, the season is and all that kind of thing.

So that's coming very soon.

EMILY: Amazing. And you also do the celestial dates, which I love.

JANE: Yes, yes. And I made the app, obviously with a lot of help because it's the fastest, easiest, cheapest way to be connected to your body, your menstrual cycle and the moon and the earth around you.

And it's Jane in your pocket.

EMILY: Yes. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. I just appreciate you. All of you. Thank you.

JANE: Thank you. Emily.

EMILY: Thank you for listening through to the end. I do hope you found good medicine in today's episode and that it encourages your own soul evolution. I have a few new offers, both in person and virtual that I'd like to tell you about.

Beginning in January, I will host a free in person perinatal Women's Circle for anyone trying to conceive, pregnant or postpartum, seeking community and support. There will be a focus on preparing for natural birth and healing from birth trauma.

Children are welcome. You can sign up via my website.

I also now offer a monthly online virtual village circle for families seeking an empowering physiological conception, pregnancy, labor, birth and postpartum. It's just $10 a month or free when you purchase my online course.

So you want home birth? You can gain access by signing up via my website.

As always, I host Women's Circles once a month at my home in Southern Maine. All women are welcome. For details, go to my website.

I have 20 years of experience in the medicalized system. I let my nursing license expire in 2023 and now I walk with women seeking a physiological, instinctual and deeply spiritual conception, pregnancy, labor, birth and postpartum journey.

I help prepare and repair for the most expansive rite of passage that women get to experience in this lifetime. It is my greatest honor and sole mission to hold sacred space and witness women as they claim their own inner authority, authority and power.

I am a fierce advocate and guardian of natural birth using the culmination of my life's experiences including my own embodied wisdom when it comes to being a home birthing mother, nearly two decades of experience in our healthcare system and a year long sacred birth worker mentorship with Anna the Spiritual Midwich.

I support births with or without a licensed provider present at home birth centers and the hospital.

I offer birth debriefing and integration sessions for women, their families and birth workers.

I offer therapeutic one to one sessions, individually tailored mother blessings, closing of the bones and fear and trauma release ceremonies.

If any or all of this resonates, I offer a free 30 minute discovery call if you have a birth story to share or if you're a embodied wise woman, witch healer, medicine woman.

I am also interested in sharing your contribution to our soul evolution.

You can book in via the link in the show notes.

Thank you so much for your love and support everyone. Until next time, take really good care.